Approval required. Dante The Ghost Merchant.

Believing in ghosts has nothing to do with Religion :I

Edit:

Xeek wrote:

Xeek, you need to stop being a hypocrite. :/ The other day I remember mentioning that we tend to base things on facts given to us by the game and whatnot, you argued against that to try to make yourself in the right. NOW, you're basing what you say off fact just because it's convenient to you? Really?

THe facts ARE given to us in-game. The only fact supporting ghost are invisible is Shiela. The other facts supporting ghost are visible is all the other ghost NPCs/Mobs we have. WHich are given off the game.

As for this, I was referring to when you disapproved of what I said about the burdening of items during commerce when what I said was SUPPORTED by the game. I argued that RPS tends to use the game to support their arguments and you argued against me. Now by you speaking of using game facts is pretty much contrasting with what you had told me before purely to benefit your current cause.

Couldn't his motive just be, kill all the bandits ever?

That would be a strong enough motive to have a physical effect on people, but he wont harm people that are simply trying to commerce.

That rage towards the bandits allows him to manifest himself into a strong peaca like ghost but he retains his humanity for the most part mentally because of the lesson he learned as a child.

@Adhamh For many it does, it looks like he is just asking people to avoid bringing it into their conclusions.

Teoxihuitl wrote:
@Adhamh For many it does, it looks like he is just asking people to avoid bringing it into their conclusions.

Well then, that kind of affects this entire thread seeing as it is based on a ghost character. :/

Adhamh wrote:

Teoxihuitl wrote:
@Adhamh For many it does, it looks like he is just asking people to avoid bringing it into their conclusions.

Well then, that kind of affects this entire thread seeing as it is based on a ghost character. :/

It shouldn't affect it at all seeing as we should not be making our decisions based on religion personal beliefs but on how he and others present the facts.

Personal beliefs have played a large part in many prior requests, Teo. Personal beliefs and desires make up pretty much the entire purpose of these requests.

Adhamh wrote:Believing in ghosts has nothing to do with Religion :I

Edit:

Xeek wrote:

Xeek, you need to stop being a hypocrite. :/ The other day I remember mentioning that we tend to base things on facts given to us by the game and whatnot, you argued against that to try to make yourself in the right. NOW, you're basing what you say off fact just because it's convenient to you? Really?

THe facts ARE given to us in-game. The only fact supporting ghost are invisible is Shiela. The other facts supporting ghost are visible is all the other ghost NPCs/Mobs we have. WHich are given off the game.

As for this, I was referring to when you disapproved of what I said about the burdening of items during commerce when what I said was SUPPORTED by the game. I argued that RPS tends to use the game to support their arguments and you argued against me. Now by you speaking of using game facts is pretty much contrasting with what you had told me before purely to benefit your current cause.

It's a completely different conversation. I never said there is no such thing as burden with commerce. I said it's not because you WORRY about it.
And the imp just says that if you knew that you have burden when you took the gig, not because you feel you have to protect it so your performance goes down.

And if we are getting on this subject of burden. Weren't you one of the people agreeing that there is no such thing as burden?

Xeek wrote:

Adhamh wrote:Believing in ghosts has nothing to do with Religion :I

Edit:

Xeek wrote:

Xeek, you need to stop being a hypocrite. :/ The other day I remember mentioning that we tend to base things on facts given to us by the game and whatnot, you argued against that to try to make yourself in the right. NOW, you're basing what you say off fact just because it's convenient to you? Really?

THe facts ARE given to us in-game. The only fact supporting ghost are invisible is Shiela. The other facts supporting ghost are visible is all the other ghost NPCs/Mobs we have. WHich are given off the game.

As for this, I was referring to when you disapproved of what I said about the burdening of items during commerce when what I said was SUPPORTED by the game. I argued that RPS tends to use the game to support their arguments and you argued against me. Now by you speaking of using game facts is pretty much contrasting with what you had told me before purely to benefit your current cause.

It's a completely different conversation. I never said there is no such thing as burden with commerce. I said it's not because you WORRY about it.
And the imp just says that if you knew that you have burden when you took the gig, not because you feel you have to protect it so your performance goes down.

And if we are getting on this subject of burden. Weren't you one of the people agreeing that there is no such thing as burden?

o_O No? And different conversations call for different rules when it comes to support? Again, I point to the whole "when it benefits you" thing I've been saying.

You realize game mechanics support both "types" of ghosts being discussed, right? >_> So if both exist in game, then it's possible to make him either or, depending on what he's wanting.

Again you are not supposed to bring up past conversations to refute something that is very different.

If you agree then agree if not then post why, don't bring up past conversations as to why you don't think they deserve to be asking for a power. That to be is childish.

Honestly take it to a pm if you have to.

@Galin

What I meant is that they shouldn't use religious beliefs as their only basis as to why or why not something is plausible.
You can easily say that our "world" religions do not exist in Erinn cause well they dont lol.
I try to judge on what is provided not what I believe if I can be swayed you get my vote if not you dont, all depends on the evidence as I hope it is for our other mentors.

Game mechanics also deny people the option to play as whatever they so choose. RPS has made dozens of exceptions to what the game mechanics allow. You are making the same justifications that have been used to approve and dismissing them when used as justifications to deny.

I believe, Teo, that we've passed the point where there is a separation between game and RL. That is my viewpoint. If you wish to allow based on RL things when there is no in-game justification for such, then you cannot deny people the right to deny for the same reasoning.

This has been discussed to death in many threads. There is game logic, and then our real world logic which we try to place to make sense of things that can not be explained by game logic.

And Galin, this subject is completely different from his request. There is an entire thread devoted to game logic conversation, and I'll ask that, unless it's directly involved in Xeek's request, the conversation be moved over in to that area please.

For real world/religion, how is it religious? Ghosts--both benign and malovent--aren't restricted to any one religion. Please, no red herrings. HOWEVER! Seeing as he's the master, he has plausible motivation for his existence, and so the horses would carry out his wishes, therefore having a will to exert themselves, I'll approve.

*Edit

As for the Flame Mare and other fire-horses, it is never said that they are a spirit of any sort. It could be something more akin to a demon, or mount of fomorian origin. Or a mythical beast, which is the most likely.

Teoxihuitl wrote:Again you are not supposed to bring up past conversations to refute something that is very different.

If you agree then agree if not then post why, don't bring up past conversations as to why you don't think they deserve to be asking for a power. That to be is childish.

I never said I don't think they deserve to ask for a power. I don't care who asks for a power, I care what the power -is- and how they support their claim. I brought that past convo up because it points out a fault that should be important.

It is related to Xeek's request, as he is attempting to deny people their right to justification on the same grounds that he has previously attempted to approve items. You cannot deny someone their right to refuse using non-game logic when the same rationale has been used to approve in other threads.

Adhamh wrote:

Teoxihuitl wrote:Again you are not supposed to bring up past conversations to refute something that is very different.

If you agree then agree if not then post why, don't bring up past conversations as to why you don't think they deserve to be asking for a power. That to be is childish.

I never said I don't think they deserve to ask for a power. I don't care who asks for a power, I care what the power -is- and how they support their claim. I brought that past convo up because it points out a fault that should be important.

You are calling me a hypocrite for no reason. I am using game mechanics and logic as I always said to use.

Also: I see a lot of conversations, but does anyone have a concern why it shouldn't be approved?
I think Vayne just cleared his approval?

Xeek wrote:

Adhamh wrote:

Teoxihuitl wrote:Again you are not supposed to bring up past conversations to refute something that is very different.

If you agree then agree if not then post why, don't bring up past conversations as to why you don't think they deserve to be asking for a power. That to be is childish.

I never said I don't think they deserve to ask for a power. I don't care who asks for a power, I care what the power -is- and how they support their claim. I brought that past convo up because it points out a fault that should be important.

You are calling me a hypocrite for no reason. I am using game mechanics and logic as I always said to use.

Also: I see a lot of conversations, but does anyone have a concern why it shouldn't be approved?
I think Vayne just cleared his approval?

Forget it. You're impossible.

Concerns why it shouldn't be approved have been voiced, you just choose to disapprove them and then ignore them.

That I did. My only issue was covered: why/how he'd be able to do anything physical (his pets included). So...yeah~!

When someone applies for a power, and concerns are met.. the person who wants the power is supposed to disapprove by offering evidence.. >_<

Which he has, he has refuted most of the concerns that people had.

If your concern was ignored please post it again, it might have been lost in the huge amount of unneeded post.

I am not arguing to disprove his character, I am merely arguing to disprove his support. I stand vigorously by what I say about him being a hypocrite, and for that reason, I refuse to repost my concerns and further refuse to argue.

Ok, just gonna make an iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitty bitty comment.

Sheila: Cannot manifest herself, but can physically affect things with magic.

Event Ghosts: Can manifest themselves to be seen by others, but cannot do much more than walk around and talk about growing up to be "an adult ghost".

Mob Ghosts: Don't look human AT ALL, but once were. Stupid powerful.

What is the relationship between the three? The way their manifest. Ghosts require energy from SOMETHING ELSE to manifest. The Emain ghosts probably can't do much more than they already are due to using their energy to show themselves to normal people. Sheila cannot manifest because all of her energy is being focused on magic and protecting her widowed husband. Peaca ghosts are more.. poltergeists. And enough people have passed through for them to take energy from. I DOUBT they becamse that powerful overnight, or even within just a decade.

Adhamh wrote:I am not arguing to disprove his character, I am merely arguing to disprove his support. I stand vigorously by what I say about him being a hypocrite, and for that reason, I refuse to repost my concerns and further refuse to argue.

By the way.

-No bashing / slandering of characters ideas. The replies to proposals need to be productive and helpful, or need to point out what is wrong with the idea in regards to what has been posted, what is in the rules, or where there is not enough justification. If you have nothing productive to say, say nothing.

Other than that, I take offense to you calling me a hypocrite. When all I am doing is what I always said.
I am following game mechanics. Just because I don't follow the one YOU like. Doesn't make me a hypocrite.
Shiela is just one aspect from the game. As Mari and other people said, she may be too weak in person to manifest herself fully. So please, before you start making accusations give them some support.

@Mari: Don't forget Patholon ghost.
Other than that.. I don't think you posted any concerns... approval? >_>

Xeek wrote:

Adhamh wrote:I am not arguing to disprove his character, I am merely arguing to disprove his support. I stand vigorously by what I say about him being a hypocrite, and for that reason, I refuse to repost my concerns and further refuse to argue.

By the way.

-No bashing / slandering of characters ideas. The replies to proposals need to be productive and helpful, or need to point out what is wrong with the idea in regards to what has been posted, what is in the rules, or where there is not enough justification. If you have nothing productive to say, say nothing.

Other than that, I take offense to you calling me a hypocrite. When all I am doing is what I always said.
I am following game mechanics. Just because I don't follow the one YOU like. Doesn't make me a hypocrite.
Shiela is just one aspect from the game. As Mari and other people said, she may be too weak in person to manifest herself fully. So please, before you start making accusations give them some support.

@Mari: Don't forget Patholon ghost.
Other than that.. I don't think you posted any concerns... approval? >_>

Um. No. o___O Meaning you need to pick HOW your character can manifest his energy. He can either move things and not be seen, not touch something, or be extremely inhuman and scare the hell outta people.