Isibeal, the fallen Daol (Soifa bodyalt)

Just like it's our speculation that Daols are ascended followers, it's your speculation that Nuadha created the Daols.

As Soifa mentioned, you must have a mind to be able to be loyal. Meaning there's room for thought, meaning room for free will.

But why would he care about two servants that don't even have Demi-god powers? I'm going with Soifa in not giving my Daol the ability to SoL.

@Xeek If Nao didn't guide them, then where would Milletians go? They -need- the guide. And there are characters that arrived without Nao?
@Aura And was TNN an example? I don't see how this fits in here.

And whether it's biased or not, I would approve this. Because I tend to believe in the whole RPer's Creativity as long as it doesn't give an unfair advantage.

Adhamh wrote:
But why would he care about two servants that don't even have Demi-god powers? I'm going with Soifa in not giving my Daol the ability to SoL.

Look up slavery. They cared if their slaves ran away.

Besides that.. We don't know if he would or wouldn't care. Saying one way or another is puppeteering the god. That is a no-no, isn't it?

Auramune wrote:

Adhamh wrote:
But why would he care about two servants that don't even have Demi-god powers? I'm going with Soifa in not giving my Daol the ability to SoL.

Look up slavery. They cared if their slaves ran away.

Besides that.. We don't know if he would or wouldn't care. Saying one way or another is puppeteering the god. That is a no-no, isn't it?

I call Nao back to the stand.

We puppeteer her all the time. We have her guide characters into our RPverse. Sure that's her job and we know it is, but we're still puppeteering her.

Adhamh wrote:

Auramune wrote:

Adhamh wrote:
But why would he care about two servants that don't even have Demi-god powers? I'm going with Soifa in not giving my Daol the ability to SoL.

Look up slavery. They cared if their slaves ran away.

Besides that.. We don't know if he would or wouldn't care. Saying one way or another is puppeteering the god. That is a no-no, isn't it?

I call Nao back to the stand.

We puppeteer her all the time. We have her guide characters into our RPverse. Sure that's her job and we know it is, but we're still puppeteering her.

No we don't. Nao never does anything more than what she's ever done in game. Sometimes less. And when people try to make her do something else, it's always corrected by someone.

Adhamh wrote:Just like it's our speculation that Daols are ascended followers, it's your speculation that Nuadha created the Daols. I don't see any reason to think he did create them, tbh. In Erinn-lore, the demigod is someone blessed by a god to have powers. That is Erinn demigod, in other lores it's someone that has one god parent and one mortal, I believe. I can research it, but it's lore that doesn't MATTER here, so I won't.

As Soifa mentioned, you must have a mind to be able to be loyal. Meaning there's room for thought, meaning room for free will. <--- Meaning that, if they ARE constructs, it's highly believable that they DO have a mind/soul of their own ANYWAY. But, that's almost ridiculous to think, and makes me think of that homonculi with souls discussion, so construct with mind/soul doesn't seem like the best thing to go with.



But why would he care about two servants that don't even have Demi-god powers? I'm going with Soifa in not giving my Daol the ability to SoL.


And whether it's biased or not, I would approve this. Because I tend to believe in the whole RPer's Creativity as long as it doesn't give an unfair advantage.

Aura, slavers paid for slaves, they were protecting their monetary investment, as well as being racist and mean and liking the excuse to keep someone down.

I think that's human nature or something. Also, Nuadha, not Nuadah. <3

Still at Aura, you say they were CREATED. Exactly what makes you believe this? Because, in the statement involving them being loyalist demigods, that says nothing about them being constructs. Demigods, as shown in Erinn already, are people blessed with godlike powers. That is what demigod is in Erinn. Not..constructs. There are 0 proof of a demigod being a construct, and at LEAST 1 of it being someone blessed with..demigodedness...

Or we go with out-of-Erinn definition and say it's a half human/half god ALL the time...butno.

If you want to know what Nuadha would do about it? I have no idea, you have no idea, and we'll not be NPCing the god on that, yeah?

What we know? He had Daol minions. Loyalist soldiers. There is no word of him 'creating' them from nothing. Demigod, in Erinn, as said, is someone with a blessing of power from a god. A Daol is a demigod soldier, hence, blessed soldier. Changing follower of demigod prevents you from using the abandoned god's demigod power(I.E, switching from Morri to Neam(Naem?..) means you can't use Morri's powers).

It's safe to assume that abandoning completely means no powers. Therefore, abandoning servitude of Nuadha = stripped of speshul gawd powers.

We also know Daol's are already in existence. Now, saying there are only 4/8 because you only see 4/8 is like saying "I only see 4 cats in my house, there must be 4 in the world". You don't see them, does not mean it's not there. Another example would be Temple Knights. You only see a certain amount, are they the ONLY ones ever? Couldn't there be more in that order? Following the reasoning of "I only see XX many, so only XX many exist forever", that would be so.

Now, to become a demigod, you get the god's blessing of power. That has been shown(to the hero, of course, but yeah, it's canon). One could refer to that as 'ascension', so a person gaining the abilities could have 'ascended' into Daol..ism. "The act of rising to an important position or a higher level." <--Ascension. It could be said that demigod > mortal person in terms of 'level'.

Daolism. Rollin' with it.


So, from that it is believed(not just by me, but I will remain vague to keep opinions secret unless the holders of such opinions wish to share) that zealot mortal + nuadha's sharing of power = Daol minion.

From THAT, is it further believed that the Daols could change their minds should they realize they made a mistake, or something.

They could leave/fall/be kicked out/be killed/etc. In this bio, fallen Daol.

That is my reasoning, ideas, and whatnot. Should future generations give more information about the origin of Daol's, this WILL be revisited(unless future G's agree, then...we'll just..whatever), as powers have previously been when new information/skills have come to light or have been changed.

Double post, but, important.

I am going to bed. I will allow 1 more page of discussion provided it doesn't get out of hand. Calm questions, and if someone cannot answer, then wait for me. PLEASE.

G'night.

Auramune wrote:They are created to do Nuadah's bidding. Would even think about disobeying him? It comes with the package of being loyalists. Do they have their own free will? Are they around when Nuadah's not there?

With approval from Soifa, I comment.

THE Milletian is an example of an individual who became a demigod, but did not lose their free will in the process. The way demi-god is received, no one goes "Why aren't you my mindless slave now?" Them having free will, and being gifted demi-god, is something accepted by the Gods. It's a symbol of trust.

Now, specifically referring to Nuadha. Let me say this: Let us say you voted for Obama in the election, and up until he got into office, you backed everything he said he stood for. You are the Obama loyalist. Then he gets into office and become a completely different person, completely different platform, and isn't the same Obama you voted for. Are you still loyal to Obama? Probably not as much, if he's not the guy you voted for.

The Battle of Mag Tuireadh changed Nuadha. Daols are Nuadha's loyalists, who are granted demi-god (creation is an improper term; change seems more appropriate). Who's to say Nuadha before the Battle didn't have Daols? And if he did, who's to say the Daols who were loyal to that Nuadha are loyal to the changed Nuadha?

Choosing loyalist over servants is pretty specific. Servants implies they have no choice. They have to do what he says. Loyalist is someone who tosses his lot in behind an idea.

So... short-hand:

The Point wrote:Demi-god does not necessitate removal of free will, as demonstrated by THE Milletian. Ergo, a Daol (loyal servant gifted with favor), loyal to the Nuadha before the battle, may not find himself loyal to Nuadha of G12 by his own choice of free will and critical thinking.

Auramune wrote:Doing this changes their entire purpose and intent in a way that may not be possible, and effects the world by being able to superimpose how Nuadah may or may not react whenever he is not imprisoned. Say he gets free. Why wouldn't he chase after his servants? Or kill them? Summon them back? Then you have interaction with a god that shouldn't be interacted with.

You realize there is no way to say "You are right" or "You are wrong" with this argument. What the God would do is what the God would do. However, saying that individual Daols cannot do this because we don't know how the God would react to it? That... is a bit counter-intuitive. Earlier examples: How would Gods react to character who do not enter the soul Stream through Nao, who is defined as the one who lives in the SS and directs Milletian souls to Erinn (source) [also applies to Xeek's comment, as it confirms Nao's role]. How would the Gods react to huge plots, considering they have a vested interest in the survival / destruction of Erinn, as shown by the G-line?

Either we make allowances, or we make no allowances. If we will not assume the ignorance of the Gods in one case, we cannot ignore the Gods in any other cases. They have already demonstrated their willingness to stick their fingers in the pie as often as they want.

Unless you're arguing for taking account of the Gods' actions and reactions to everything in Erinn that does occur of importance... it is significantly safer, and less of a headache for anything related to grand plots in Erinn, to assume ignorance.

Auramune wrote:And honestly, if anyone else suggested these characters with as little information as we know.. would you think twice about not approving them?

When stuff started like this, specifically with Haemonculi (used to this spelling, pardon), it was understood things weren't known, and that if anything changed, the template / power would be changed. This has also been true for powers, such as the example with lullaby I remember a while back, or some of the MA, if I remember. So... why wouldn't this be revised, as rules require, if something became significantly clearer? Approval does not mean it exists outside the rules.

---

I comment on Aura's stuff because I feel she summed things up the nicest and orderiest for her side of things, and I think Soifa responded to Xeek. My apologies if it seemed like I was picking and choosing.

---

Council Consensus: 4 out of 5 for all of it / End sentence approved by all

Everyone has done this in the past. Mari, Soifa, and I have acknowledged it, and it was part of the original reason for powers re-evaluation. Members of the guild are guilty of this, and we will make a general announcement as such. The following is our message to RPS:

The argument that 'we don't know' is an invalid argument for straight up denial in a guild where, I believe, everyone has argued for their own creative license. Soul powers, my Magnekineticist, Ani's Super Possessive 'I Wuv Chaos and Taking Over Your Brain' armor, Dal's Erg Sensitivity, Ego Golems, Gem Dragons, Dungeon-'Beings,' half-dragons, the feeding habits of Incubi and Succubi in this universe... Need we go on?

If we are going to start limiting this creative license when rules for forced editting of incorrect game objects have been put in place and acted on before (such as the Liiam dilemma of the past), then we must go back and do the same for these sorts of powers and creations that are operating under a same 'we don't know, but... cool if it works like this...' understanding. The favoritism of different creative license types is getting old.

Or, considering we really don't know if some of these powers that are here are done correctly based on lore, we could trash the whole system and remove creative license. We have to admit in some cases we don't know, but are willing to work with things, unless you as a guild are willing to begin removing numerous other things.

We cannot do this "We look at things one way for these people and topics, but ignore these things when looking at other people and things for these other topics." That is not fair to the members of the guild. If we as a guild are not mature enough to understand what fairness of creative license watched over by rules is, then we're not mature enough to have any of these 'we don't know, but...' powers. It must be one way (allowance) or the other (denial).

(( Read Prior Post First ))

Please also note, if I am convinced of the logic behind the anti-Daol argument, which I certainly could be, I will also insist on the permanent removal of all dungeon-tans. The idea behind the existence of Dungeon-Tans is a facilitation of the guild entirely, and is creative license. However, if we are not willing to work with what we have 'the heavens,' we cannot logically abide people making PCs out of the dungeons themselves and playing as if they were the spirit of the dungeon.

By the argument against Daols, if we cannot RP something influenced by the Gods, we should not be able to RP the effective essence of an established location.

Well, ya'll really don't seems to understand the concerns being presented(and at some points seem to be taking things personal). And I don't feel like discussing this anymore. This is not me no longer caring enough to discuss something that really isn't going to matter what I say xD.

When I often post for something, I am usually asked for proof. Now, I am not saying you are wrong, that may be true. But, if it is completely wrong? If there is only four daols? Playing a Daol would be no different than playing Uroborus. The same arguments can be used, should those be allowed?

The point is, whether we want to accept it or not, no matter what we think, we do NOT know anything about Daols.
Now, Dell, the reason the "Tans" and Daols are different, is because we created the Tans. The Tans came alive as soon as we created them, their history is what we know of them. Some Tans(like Fiodh) know a bit more in the past, because I've seen the past(so to speak).

Daols, aside from being only around Nuadha, I am not sure if they even speak? Are there even female ones? We simply don't know. And nobody has been able to answer me, if I grab a Daol and force them to show me their memories of the past, what happens? Do you simply say "Past"?
Are they even human? They like part bird-ish to me. Can you safely say, that the 'mask' they wear is even a mask? Have you noticed their toes? They have three? Is it just the boots? Or them?

You call this creative license, I am sure Liiam called his powers the same. I am sure those who have NPC'd Gods called it the same. Your character, growing up, must have had interaction with Nuadha, we aren't even sure how he treated them? What if, I now want to make a Daol, and I say my Daol was treated horribly? Then someone else makes one, and says they were treated good? Who would be right? Who ever got it first? Both? Nuadha would be bipolar? Or do you get to decide that during a council vote?

Now, from what I seen, you guys have been stating ways your character can exist. And I am fine with that, but we do not know is true.

THE Milletian is an example of an individual who became a demigod, but did not lose their free will in the process. The way demi-god is received, no one goes "Why aren't you my mindless slave now?" Them having free will, and being gifted demi-god, is something accepted by the Gods. It's a symbol of trust.

Actually Dellinger, you are wrong. While nobody did try to claim the milletian as their slave(directly).
You obtain the power of light by -stealing- it.
You obtain Brionac the same way, the gods did not want you to have it.
Shadow spirit/Morri is given to you by their respected gods to push their agenda.
Which leads me to the point that now, Morrighan has been trying to kill you. There is no acceptance or trust, it's all a big scheme. And many tried to get the Milletian to work for them. Example, Nuadha, he tries to get the Milletian to join him.

Now, specifically referring to Nuadha. Let me say this: Let us say you voted for Obama in the election, and up until he got into office, you backed everything he said he stood for. You are the Obama loyalist. Then he gets into office and become a completely different person, completely different platform, and isn't the same Obama you voted for. Are you still loyal to Obama? Probably not as much, if he's not the guy you voted for.

The Battle of Mag Tuireadh changed Nuadha. Daols are Nuadha's loyalists, who are granted demi-god (creation is an improper term; change seems more appropriate). Who's to say Nuadha before the Battle didn't have Daols? And if he did, who's to say the Daols who were loyal to that Nuadha are loyal to the changed Nuadha?

You are completely right. But now, let say you are wrong. Nuadha may not have been a god during the war, maybe he didn't have the daols. When I read stories of the war, the Daols were not mentioned, at all. So why should we assume they were there? And, Storyline says they are loyal to the changed Nuadha. During the whole G12, they were BY HIS SIDE. There was not one time you would see the Daols without Nuadha present, and I am sure the visa-versa was true as well. Do you feel completely comfortable changing history? Because if you are wrong, and even if you are right, Mabinogi lore would be changed.

You realize there is no way to say "You are right" or "You are wrong" with this argument. What the God would do is what the God would do. However, saying that individual Daols cannot do this because we don't know how the God would react to it? That... is a bit counter-intuitive. Earlier examples: How would Gods react to character who do not enter the soul Stream through Nao, who is defined as the one who lives in the SS and directs Milletian souls to Erinn (source) [also applies to Xeek's comment, as it confirms Nao's role]. How would the Gods react to huge plots, considering they have a vested interest in the survival / destruction of Erinn, as shown by the G-line?

I know Nao's role, but I know Milletians are capable of operating the soul stream without her. Nao is nothing more than a GUIDE. She does not possess the powers that the soul stream uses. As you can see with "The Uninvited guess", he was able to rebirth, come and leave Erinn, probably before Mari(Nao) was even born. Also, G1 also took place slightly before the Player COULD arrive, so, while not proven, shakespeare might have not been the only Milletian to operate without Nao.

Or, considering we really don't know if some of these powers that are here are done correctly based on lore, we could trash the whole system and remove creative license. We have to admit in some cases we don't know, but are willing to work with things, unless you as a guild are willing to begin removing numerous other things.

Actually Dellinger, I can assure you they are not. And this was brought up when we were discussing if powers should be allowed, we do not get to keep our powers from the other world. But, we decided against it for one reason, creative license, "What is the difference between this, and that?" Well, for one, we created our characters.

We brought Succubi/Incubi/tons of other fomors from our world. There is not one right Succubi, there is plenty. If something would be found out about Succubi, like I don't know, they spontaneously combust into flames upon touching ...uhh... cake. We wouldn't have to worry, because we don't necessarily have to use the lore's succubi.

For the Tans is the same, we created the Tans. While it's unclear how, it was changed during our Rp world without CHANGING THE PAST.


Summary: If you do not feel like reading, just read this. This is the main problem.
In order to play a Daol, you must know the Daol's mindset. We do not know that, we do not know if Daols are specific to only Nuadha. We do not know anything about them, and they aren't like other races, we can't say they are a different breed of Daol because you guys are stating they directly come from Nuadha. You are viewing them as fallen angels, you are not creating your own character, you are using one already made. And if you are creating your character, does that mean we can say that our characters were chosen by gods too?

You are stuck between two things. Using a character Nexon made, or having your character be chosen by a god. Both which are against our rules.

Are you prepare to give anyone who wants a Daol character? Or the ability to involve gods in their past under creative license?

Like I've stated before, we can sit here all day, back and forth providing our opinions. Make 10 pages on Soifa's thread. The bottom line, is that we have no evidence. But the following things are true.

Daols only appear around Nuadha. They are his loyalist. While you can take that however you want, they serve/d him.

I personally think, while Soifa personally rejected the idea, that the current suggestion is the best. It allows them to play their character with one little change, it'll be a Milletian. And I am sure you can say they teleported in a certain way that makes them not Milletian. The idea is to have them from an alternative Erinn, that you control. Since it'll be your world, you can do what ever you please.

I am defeated. My plan was to change Soifa's and Auron's mind. If they haven't by now, they won't. Because the argument will stay the same. As there is no facts to use. Aura is currently in G12, and rest assure, I(since I'll be doing it) will keep an eye out for any information given about them, and include screenshots.


Note: Also, keep in mind that the burden of proof lies on you guys. And because "It's been done before", is not a reason why it should be done now. If you really feel other things break the rule I am stating, then feel free to argue them, and attempt to get them removed as well.

Fallen Daol or Fallen Angel reminds me somewhat of the Fallen Angel from Diablo 3.

But when he was turned to a mortal, his wings were stripped as well. He basically became a normal mortal being, appearing human. Not sure if a "Fallen" Daol would be stripped of only his power and not fall with an appearence change.

Keep in mind this is without the change:

And given by the look, I'm going to assume ALL Daols, since al the daols ever seen -are- male, that they are male only.

Also, another question. HOW did they leave Falias? Through the portal? NO! The portal is only there when the initial portal is created. It's not -always- there. A portal requires two "ports" so to speak, to function. And we don't know WHERE Falias is in relation to Erinn. It could be in a pocket dimension within Erinn for all we know.

I'm bringing up new things here, I don't care too much about the whole thing about Daols existence.


Also, @Xeek: We don't know Daol's mindset? OK, so we automatically know every other fomor's mindset? Let's take a look at our Incubi. Most all of them aren't crazed sexual fiends. There is one MARRIED to a priestess. If I'm correct, I don't think they all have the same mindset. Also, Daols get summoned as a "mob" to fight for Nuadha. I believe there was a point where he summons them and then leaves for a bit. But they were still summoned.

Also: I think it'd be funny if the story went like: Random NPC came up and talked to the Daols, trying to make them change their ways. That was it's not a sudden "Oh hey, leader imprisoned, let's do our own thang." But actually had someone light the new flame. Some Daols said no, but these two seriously considered what the NPC said, eventually leading them to leaving Falias (Still not sure HOW, possibly through the same portal the random NPC would leave), and go out among Erinn. Of course, leaving Falias itself would strip them of Nuadha's powers granted onto them, etc etc for explaining that. Just a random thought/suggestion. You don't have to use it, but I thought it'd make a bit more sense than a sudden "wtf" moment and the loyalist not helping the big god escape.

Spoiler:

You guys appear to be reading our responses but you're -ignoring- them for the most part. You continue to restate the same things when Dellinger has stated that "We do not know" is not a valid reason.

As for evidence, please re-read Dellinger's post. As he stated, we've more evidence to support our claim than you do. o_o; Now the fact is, you guys don't accept the evidence we provide (which is honestly an issue I've seen a lot in these discussions.) There's a difference between having no evidence and denying evidence that is provided. Same thing goes for answers to questions. Xeek, you asked about what would happen if someone were to ask the daols about their memories/force them to share their memories. I suggested an answer and you -ignored- that answer. I suggested the ever-popular "memory wipe."

Adhamh wrote:

Xeek wrote:

Adhamh wrote:Nuadha -was- jailed. That's a question we can answer with certainty. o_o Otherwise, we'd still be in G12 or something, with him still doing what he was trying to do. xD;

And yes Xeek, we don't. But since we lack the information, we're using creativity to make them characters. Weakened-down so that they're not too strong for our standards.

I see your guys' issue, but I don't see why it's such an issue.

Because, this would be almost identical to playing a god-character or any other NPC.
Right now, if I use a taming spell to make your character show me it's memories, what would you do?

But thing is, it really isn't. Like it was mentioned several times, their powers were stripped so no, it wouldn't be identical to playing a god-character.

What if in falling, they lost their memories as well?

As for the AU Erinn suggestion, it's an interesting idea. But I'm not sure if we're even allowed to create AU Erinns to bring our characters in to actual Erinn. Would they pass through the soul stream in doing so or would they come in through a dimensional rift in order to remain powered-down daols? I'm not sure what the protocol is on that. Can anyone answer that for me?

In searching for the quote, I completely forgot what else I was gonna say. I won't be able to respond much today, as I'm in class.

Edit: I remembered as soon as I sent in the post. >__>

Glacia, your NPC idea is interesting, but how would this NPC access Falias anyway? You require Brionac to open the portal.

You guys appear to be reading our responses but you're -ignoring- them for the most part. You continue to restate the same things when Dellinger has stated that "We do not know" is not a valid reason.

Dellinger's opinion is not a fact. I provided reasons why I believe our lack of knowledge IS a valid reason. I don't see many of them, the leading one being "it's done before".

As for evidence, please re-read Dellinger's post. As he stated, we've more evidence to support our claim than you do. o_o; Now the fact is, you guys don't accept the evidence we provide (which is honestly an issue I've seen a lot in these discussions.) There's a difference between having no evidence and denying evidence that is provided. Same thing goes for answers to questions. Xeek, you asked about what would happen if someone were to ask the daols about their memories/force them to share their memories. I suggested an answer and you -ignored- that answer. I suggested the ever-popular "memory wipe."

I believed you did not understand what I was saying, I sent you in a PM, and repeating for the public. There are ways to reveal characters memory, even after erased.

And no Auron, no evidence have been provided. Only assumptions and opinions. Including my own words, most of them are just that. We do not know anything about the Daols, and if anyone has been ignoring post, is you, among others. I've asked several questions that have no been answered.

You rrequire Brionac OOCly. As well as the Falias Fragment that Keith seems to hoard. He hoards a LOT of them.

As we have stated, the Canon NPC that does the mainstream stuff is Lorna. At first I thought "What if Lorna talked to them and stuff." Then it's like she would be a mainstream NPC so to speak. However, what if there was a way to conjure a portal without needing brionac. It'd require say a ritual of sorts, using a Falias Fragment as a reagent in creating a portal to Falias. Ok, maybe I'm taking it out of hand a bit, but my mind wanders.

Well honestly, I'm more inclined to believe Dellinger's words. Not because it supports my argument, but because the colored-names are colored for a reason. Especially Dell. I trust his and the other colored-names' observations and judgement.

And just because it's not written in a book, doesn't mean it's not evidence. o_o Look at crime scenes, they don't get all the answers from books. Same for any scientific experiment. Yes, you can get support from books/written logs/etc, but evidence isn't solely restricted to written information. Power of deduction and whatnot.

And that ritual idea of yours glacia is actually pretty interesting. What if the daols were to escape using the same portal Lorna(I had not known it was finally decided to be her. I took my break from Mabi while that discussion was still going on. xD;). As stated in their bios, they began doubting before Nuadha was imprisoned, so as soon as Lorna finished Nuadha, they jumped in the portal she created? I will admit that how they escaped Falias is an issue that I agree exists.

This is what happens when I take my mind off the first problem people have, with that being the Daol's existance, and focus other issues, such as how they would leave.

I think that they could have seen what happened to the other Daols, possibly draw a sense of "fear" for their own lives if they were to be called by Nuadha, and possibly make a run for the portal while Lorna and Nuadha are duking it out. Upon leaving Falias, the "connection" to Nuadha would be severed, and they would claim more human lives. They really wouldn't be demigods anymore. Also, Giant Bird Leg Boots. You need them for their feet. As shown in the picture earlier, their feet are not human. Giant Bird leg or Dragon Scale Greaves would capture that effect.

Actually, from what I can see, they have actual feet. You can't see it well though because it's nearly the same color as the floor due to lighting. The metal parts are feet/toe armor. xD;

Edit: They appear to be steel-claw armor for their feet. Similar to what they have on their hands.

Snake gauntlet thingies would be the closest to that hand armor, huh?

glaceon wrote:And given by the look, I'm going to assume ALL Daols, since al the daols ever seen -are- male, that they are male only.

Why is it okay to assume one thing is correct and not other things that have been shown in the game?

Adhamh wrote:Well honestly, I'm more inclined to believe Dellinger's words. Not because it supports my argument, but because the colored-names are colored for a reason. Especially Dell. I trust his and the other colored-names' observations and judgement.

Adhamh wrote:As he stated, we've more evidence to support our claim than you do. o_o; Now the fact is, you guys don't accept the evidence we provide (which is honestly an issue I've seen a lot in these discussions.)

Trusting him because he is a colored-name is just as bad as trusting him because he supports your argument. You are thrusting his OPINION, not his facts.

Lack of proof is NOT proof.

Facts: They appear to be only male. They appear only with Nuadah.

There is absolutely NOTHING in game that helps support your argument.
everything else, even the 'facts' you claim to have, are assumptions.


And I hope you know this isn't a "my way your way" thing. If answers could be provided then I'd be more than happy to accept them as playable races. But the only answers are "we allowed this, so we should allow this too." If that's your only argument, then I think you all should highly reconsider your standpoints on this issue. Everything else provided is just assumptions, from everyone. So don't act as though your claims have support, unless you actually support them with GAME facts.

Dellinger has not thrown in ANY facts. Nobody has, because as you are proving right now, believe that they have normal feet, while others believe they have talons, we don't know any.

In short; if you mentally wipe away what RPS has allowed in to the guild, Daols would not be possible as a played race. Allowing this is also very hypocritical. Because, as everyone refused to answer.

It's either 1) Making an NPC who has a god in the background, WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED.
2) Stealing an NPC from Nexon, WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED.
And nobody has proved it's not either of the situations.

I'll be making a post soon. Await with baited breath. Just taking a slight break to get my head in order, eat food, take a shower, and dance the fandango.



::EDIT:: As Soifa disappeared, let's hold off on this until she gets back. =D

>_> I DID tell you that you could continue for a maximum of one page.

Oh well.

I'm awake, carry on.

Xeek wrote:In short; if you mentally wipe away what RPS has allowed in to the guild, Daols would not be possible as a played race. Allowing this is also very hypocritical. Because, as everyone refused to answer.

It's either 1) Making an NPC who has a god in the background, WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED.
2) Stealing an NPC from Nexon, WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED.
And nobody has proved it's not either of the situations.

But...
To the 1: Couldn't you say the same about Goblins, Kobolds, or many other humanoid monsters? They appear as male but does that mean there is absolutely no chance of them being female?
To the 2: Anyone who has used a fomor character, Tuathan(Ex. Guild Leaders), or Erinn born...wouldn't that count as stealing an NPC from Nexon too? We were only given a choice from Milletian. Not anything else, everything else is in fact NPC'd after all...right?

I am officially withdrawing myself from the conversation for personal reasons. I will leave my post to respond's questions/concern, but I will no longer provide an input.

And thank you for fixing it Dell xD

Spoiler: