Julius Entine - Spawn of a Mag

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:13 am

IC Skill Name: Natural Electricity
Power Class: Genetic
OOC Representation: Lightning / Thunder
Description: As the spawn of a magnekineticist, like his father, Julius does not use mana to 'cast lightning.' His lightning is cast in the form of bio-electricity, harnessed from his own and others' natural magnetic fields. If an individual touches him, they may feel a slight rush of a shock if he doesn't desire the touch (like he was rubbing his feet on carpets all day).
Explain relation: His father had this ability due to his genes. In this sense, the only difference is that mana is replaced with a form of fatigue. He's at 0 mana, he can't really zap you no more.
Notes: It's a basic lightning magic reskin. All resistances will work as they would for blocking lightning magic, 0 mana in game means Julius is too tired to adequately harness bio-electricity, and charge times -will be the same- as they would be for the spells (main difference being thunder without a wand, but significantly more 'showy'). Using a potion just means Julius has more energy. If it comes down to it, I'll limit potions to 5 MP 100s per session. This does not affect his ability to cast other magics. Also, harnessing energy from other individuals does not affect them in any noticeable way.
Level: 1

Don't believe I missed anything that is fundamentally abusable. Also, I'm only requesting this power because it's genetic to the character. Kind of worked myself into a corner giving Lucius a son. -shrugs-

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:56 am

Mana is not just 'magical energy', mana is the source of energy of the world. Meaning, in Erinn, if you run out of mana you will be fatigued. This being said, something can be 'genetic' and still use mana. The reason mana seems much greater than Real World energy is because in Erinn we(the beings) can control the mana flow, allowing for more uses. So, in a way, the concept would be the same if you used mana.

Casting is also partly OOC, you do not chant a spell or call the powers from the great beyond as you would in another game. ICly, when you cast you are manipulating the mana to, in the case of lightning bolt, split the two polarities. (You can read more about lightning bolt HERE.

This being said, your character would be the practically the same( difference being, if he has no mana for the electric power, he has none for the other magics.), save for the wand-less advance magic and the touchy sparky thing, which you can request that when your character pulls in mana, it has a slight elemental charge.

This being said, I have no real concerns, just a suggestion to keep the character as a normal person, and request the power to be sparky on touch, and wand-less magic.
*throws two-cents in a pond*

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:36 am

I'd keep the character a 'normal person' if it wasn't a genetic power, sir. Hence why my caveat is at the bottom. Changing how it fundamentally works wouldn't really be a genetic passing down, as it wouldn't the same way. In effect, I was thinking this would come up: Julius would effectively cast the bio-electricity using stamina rather than mana ICly, hence power request, even though it's pretty much just a reskin (hence all of my notes to nip the abuse part of the discussion in the butt =P).

Also, the point of a power reskin is to effectively develop a character differently than another through genetics or something else, and there is no listed prerequisite for 'minimum change'. Remember, a reskin is a simple change, unlike major powers that others request. =]

Thank you for your suggestion: However, this is not necessarily a 'magical' ability, therefore having it remain 'normal magic' doesn't fit the lineage. -nods-

Guest Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:11 pm

A reskin is a reskin, and there's nothing wrong with it.

It doesn't apply to lightning shield, but if you ever get the skill and want it to just make sure to request it again. Razz

I'll approve.

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:16 pm

Soifa Toten wrote:It doesn't apply to lightning shield, but if you ever get the skill and want it to just make sure to request it again.

Certainly. If you look at the old Entine posts, he had a lot of powers requested. The reason Julius does not is because he hasn't practiced it. The basics are what I listed. If he, ICly, starts to practice this, I'll request more powers, which in most cases will be reskins of a similar nature, -possibly- a different version of lightning shield.

However, those are not here, so they are obviously not part of this powers request. =P

Glaceon Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:27 pm

So is he using stamina ICly or Mana? Since you brought that up that it could be plausible.
Also, when Glacia is out of mana, she is fatigued because of how she is, being a mage and all. (That's a weakness I may have to see if it needs approved)

Also....I had a question...and forgot it. I feel awful now....it was a good question.

I would approve, but I lack the ability that lets my approval have meaning. So I'll just nod at this.

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:32 pm

Glacia: Stamina ICly, Mana OOCly - Same effect when it reaches 0 (IE, fatigued, which I believe I stated)

Hopefully that makes is significantly clearer, and feel free to ask your question if you remember it. =D

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:37 pm

Glaceon wrote:So is he using stamina ICly or Mana? Since you brought that up that it could be plausible.
Also, when Glacia is out of mana, she is fatigued because of how she is, being a mage and all. (That's a weakness I may have to see if it needs approved)

It doesn't, while it's not shown in-game -EVERYONE- gets(or should be) fatigued when low on mana.
As stated in the meditation books, mana is used to run the body.

Which is why, in a weird chain, Entine is still using mana.

Also: This isn't a reskin. In order for to be a reskin it must work exactly like the game, just look differently.
Ex. Blue firebolt(still fire element)
Wandless advance magic, does the same functions, just the wand isn't there.
And it's a level 1 power... Only level 0s are reskin.

That being said, I don't have a problem with the power either, just clarifying a few things.
Oh yeah, one question..

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:42 pm

My use of reskin is because that's how I recall others have used it before in regards to some level 1 powers of this sort... -shrugs- Haven't seen anyone debate that terminology until now, then, as apparently no one thought it was a problem then. =]

You didn't ask your question, either. Next time, please ask it rather than allude to you eventually asking one, because that's a waste of my time and requires me to wait on you rather than possibly assist people or do other more important things. Just a courtesy I feel I should be able to ask. =]

Adhamh Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:50 pm

Xeek. Mana does -not- run the entire body. It runs THROUGH it. You do not require mana to smash something. Or to load an arrow onto a bow. -Stamina- does that. Stamina is one's energy to perform physical activity. If you notice, characters do get fatigued, but when they're low on STAMINA. The only way characters are fatigued when low on mana, is when trying to perform something magical. Mana is not a life force, it is magical energy. I'm not saying it's unimportant, because it is very important. I'm just saying that mana isn't as crucial as you make it out to be.

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:11 pm

Adhamh wrote:Xeek. Mana does -not- run the entire body. It runs THROUGH it. You do not require mana to smash something. Or to load an arrow onto a bow. -Stamina- does that. Stamina is one's energy to perform physical activity. If you notice, characters do get fatigued, but when they're low on STAMINA. The only way characters are fatigued when low on mana, is when trying to perform something magical. Mana is not a life force, it is magical energy. I'm not saying it's unimportant, because it is very important. I'm just saying that mana isn't as crucial as you make it out to be.

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=The_First_Steps_of_Meditation

Every human action comes from a conscious decision, and this comes from a person's spirit. A person's spirit and body are closely related. Therefore, Mana, which powers the spirit also affects the body as well.

Erinn's nature is full of Mana, and since the body doesn't really use a lot of Mana, it is always restored by nature. It seems that daily activities do not require Mana, whereas using magic requires significant amount.

What can you do to recover Mana faster when there is no Eweca? This is where meditation comes in handy. Meditation in other words is contemplation. It is calming the spirit so that it decreases the Mana usage from your brain activity and it helps you become one with nature and obtain Mana faster.

I suggest reading all the meditation books, as they provide very useful information. This means, if your mana is ever 0 (not your MP) your character will drop dead.

My apologies Dellinger, I thought I had deleted the final sentence, as my internet was being removed for a moment. Also, I never said it was a problem. I was just correcting the terminology.
Your power is simple, not a reskin.

Also, the question was. If you run out of mana OOC, does that mean, technically you can't use any skills that require stamina or mana?

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:20 pm

Mana, OOCly, would represent being entirely fatigued stamina-wise. As a character thing, he won't use magic alongside the bio-electricity, but if he ever does, I'll have him drink a potion OOCly to replenish mana so that he can cast spells after "stamina is sapped."

Xeek, also as your meditation comments warrant it, it's effectively using more stamina harnessing bio-electricity than it is using mana. As it's not a direct use of mana, it's more of a 'natural process' due to his overactive magnetic field. So effectively, the stamina cost is the main cost, mana cost is minimal, more like a 'natural process.' Is that clarification adequate?

It's a good question, though, so thanks for asking it! And it's no problem. Just making you aware of the action, and how if it was purposeful, how I would prefer it done next time. No hard feelings. =D

Also, as a clarification, it seems that the book states mana is minimally restored during the day, therefore theorhetically mana can't drop to zero. But that's a discussion for another thread, not this one. =]

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:41 pm

Dellinger wrote:Mana, OOCly, would represent being entirely fatigued stamina-wise. As a character thing, he won't use magic alongside the bio-electricity, but if he ever does, I'll have him drink a potion OOCly to replenish mana so that he can cast spells after "stamina is sapped."

Xeek, also as your meditation comments warrant it, it's effectively using more stamina harnessing bio-electricity than it is using mana. As it's not a direct use of mana, it's more of a 'natural process' due to his overactive magnetic field. So effectively, the stamina cost is the main cost, mana cost is minimal, more like a 'natural process.' Is that clarification adequate?

It's a good question, though, so thanks for asking it! And it's no problem. Just making you aware of the action, and how if it was purposeful, how I would prefer it done next time. No hard feelings. =D

Also, as a clarification, it seems that the book states mana is minimally restored during the day, therefore theorhetically mana can't drop to zero. But that's a discussion for another thread, not this one. =]

I understood the mana thing, anything I stated before was clarification/suggestion. I only wish the Q&A section was re-open so we can discuss this further.

A few I thought about, how much physics are applied to his body's electricity? Like, if he touches metal, would the spark conduct to someone else touching metal? Does he weaken/strengthen by water?
Lastly, does he use a cylinder/crystal for shock? If he even has it.

Adhamh Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:45 pm

Xeek wrote:
Erinn's nature is full of Mana, and since the body doesn't really use a lot of Mana, it is always restored by nature. It seems that daily activities do not require Mana, whereas using magic requires significant amount.

What can you do to recover Mana faster when there is no Eweca? This is where meditation comes in handy. Meditation in other words is contemplation. It is calming the spirit so that it decreases the Mana usage from your brain activity and it helps you become one with nature and obtain Mana faster.

I suggest reading all the meditation books, as they provide very useful information. This means, if your mana is ever 0 (not your MP) your character will drop dead.

Xeek. One, re-read what I typed in my last post and then read what I bold-faced. Two, Nowhere does it even insinuate that your character will drop dead when your mana is 0. o_O And Xeek, your MP is the amount of mana one has. They're one and the same. One does not have more(or less) mana than what is detailed by your MP bar OOCly, same for stamina and health.

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:55 pm

Healing: The Basics of Magic wrote:Erg, which is known as the energy source of the universe, sustains all of creation including our body. All creatures, including humans, have the power to convert this energy into something called Life energy. However, you don't need to pay too much attention on how it works. Just as the heart pumps on its own, this process too, happens automatically.

This converted Life energy then keeps our body functioning; making the blood flow, digesting food, making us grow and healing wounds.

You may notice people who seem to always be full of energy. That's because they are managing their Life energy well.

Basics of Lightning Magic: the Lightning Bolt wrote:The Lightning Bolt attack is a magic that uses this principle of Electric energy, which utilizes the characteristics of the positive and negative charge for a sudden transfer of energy. During the energy transfusion, a bright explosion resembling a lightning strike, rushes toward your target as Erg is depleted into thin air. Once all the Erg is depleted and the surrounding elements reach equilibrium, the flow of energy ends. (Just like a lightning strike in nature.)

There are many questions surrounding this magic, such as "How powerful is it?" and "How easy is it to use?", which is technically asking how much energy it needs and how long it takes. To give you an answer, there is a limit to how much energy you can gather, and you can only maintain the energy for about 15 seconds.

You can charge your energy multiple times to gather more energy, but it is reported that the maximum charge is about 5 times. Also, you only have about 15 seconds to charge all your energy. This is because of several factors, such as the difficulty of maintaining the Mana's focus, and also maintaining the polarized energy at the same time. (Even if you have plenty of Mana, it is difficult to charge for an extensive lightning attack).

From my own basic look into this, Mana =/= Erg. Mana, used in magic, manipulates Erg. Hence why it's magic. In this way, it's a different manipulation of the Erg of 'positive / negative' electricity. Therefore, electric energy =/= the process to fling the energy at someone else. They're two different energies. In this case, my first step is different than that of a magic user.

Shock and other spells that exist that have not been addressed have been addressed in an earlier question by Soifa. Please refer to my response to her question.

He may spark on metal if he feels like showing off and making it obvious. But he's not necessarily an idiot, and that would be tactless. It is possible, however. Water would nullify the shock bit. Otherwise, if he 'let out' in water, it would drain him more but amplify the attack, as a result of more electricity being discharged. Unless, again, he holds it back.

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:20 pm

Xeek's response, which was PM'd to me, in regards to books:

Erg, which is known as the energy source of the universe, sustains all of creation including our body. All creatures, including humans, have the power to convert this energy into something called Life energy. However, you don't need to pay too much attention on how it works. Just as the heart pumps on its own, this process too, happens automatically.

This converted Life energy then keeps our body functioning; making the blood flow, digesting food, making us grow and healing wounds.

You may notice people who seem to always be full of energy. That's because they are managing their Life energy well.

You are correct. By putting the knowledge from Healing and Meditation books, it can be deduced that mana is the 'power' used to turn erg into Life force. While I can not find the other books right now, I will find you any other information I can find.

Doesn't necessarily state the power is mana, however. You can assume that it could be mana, but that 'power' might also just be the process of living, being born, or existing. Digestion, possibly, by taking the erg made in bodily processes and incorporating it into your own. Breathing, taking the 'erg' from the air and distributing it from the body.

One could -assume- that it is mana. But there's no solid evidence from this one quote stating that to live, one requires mana to convert Erg into Life Energy. It specifically references a power. Considering mana powers the spirit, and "affects" the body, the conclusion that mana "powers" the body is not logical. Affects =/= powers.

to affect: to have an effect on; make a difference to: "the dampness began to affect my health".

to power: the ability to do something or act in a particular way, esp. as a faculty or quality.

One is an acting force. The other is a conditional force. They do not equate. They may be involved, however, we're arguing off something that doesn't seem so clearly defined as you make it out to be, which makes definite statements then seem slightly less powerful.

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:26 pm

Now, before we continue with this discussion, which really should go elsewhere:

Is there literally a fundamental issue with this power, Xeek? Because you bring these up, then lay other questions. I have answered the other questions, which you haven't acknowledged yet. This discussion might just belong elsewhere.

Because at this point, a debate over magic and erg with theorhetical books that list an individual author's understandings of things are then being taken to 'imply' this, which is then taken as truth without the truth being listed. And I'd like to get back on track soon. Again, if this theorhetical debate needs to be taken, it really can be taken up in an OOC post. I have already accomodated the power to address a potential mix of the two, which again wasn't commented on in favor of the debate. This goes for all whom have addressed the debate rather than the power, no matter what side was being supported. =]

I ask those looking at this power again to stay on track as a courtesy to me, so that way I'm not wasting more of my time hosting an only tangentially related debate in a post that is focused is elsewhere. Thank you.

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:33 pm

I am not sure why you brought it back here.. since you asked me to bring the conversation else where? Or am I mistaken?

But, if you wish to continue here.

As you can read in the Meditation post, I'll put it in Layman's term.

In order to live, you need life force.

Erg > automatic body functions > Life force.
Mana > Used to power the brain.
Brain > Controls automatic body functions.
While it's not stated, you can safely assume: no mana, no life force, no living.
But you at least know, No mana = No brain functions. I don't know many people who move around without brain functions.

Also, from observing pets, you can see that their bodily functions take mana. Ex. Spider cobweb laying.

Also: Auron, the MP bar is the mana you are able to use for magic, therefore, you aren't allowed to commit suicide(Unless you equip a +MP item and them remove it, you mana will go negative).
IC-wise, it would be possible to exert yourself and waste all your bodies mana.

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:37 pm

Again, I am not sure why you brought it back here? (If Dell wishes, my previous post my be deleted)

I did acknowledged your reply, I was thinking of any other questions before I posted that all my concerns were answered.
All my concerns are answered.

**Dalvar** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:38 pm

Question!
And, Dell, I will delete this if you want because it goes totally offtopic. Just say the word.
Where is your proof that we have more mana than the statbar shows? That just seems like an assumption that is useful for your argument and nothing else.

Guest Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:39 pm

Dalvar wrote:Question!
And, Dell, I will delete this if you want because it goes totally offtopic. Just say the word.
Where is your proof that we have more mana than the statbar shows? That just seems like an assumption that is useful for your argument and nothing else.

Well, with those books Xeek mentioned, you can actually have NEGATIVE mana.

I've gone to negative 200-something once, took a bunch of mp30s to even get 1 point of usable mana.

**Dalvar** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:40 pm

Soifa Toten wrote:Well, with those books Xeek mentioned, you can actually have NEGATIVE mana.

I've gone to negative 200-something once, took a bunch of mp30s to even get 1 point of usable mana.

And you did not suffer brain death?

Guest Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:41 pm

Dalvar wrote:
Soifa Toten wrote:Well, with those books Xeek mentioned, you can actually have NEGATIVE mana.

I've gone to negative 200-something once, took a bunch of mp30s to even get 1 point of usable mana.
And you did not suffer brain death?

'course not. I suffered from..something punching me in my un-mana-shielded face, though.

Does that count? 8D

Xeek Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:44 pm

Dalvar wrote:
Soifa Toten wrote:Well, with those books Xeek mentioned, you can actually have NEGATIVE mana.

I've gone to negative 200-something once, took a bunch of mp30s to even get 1 point of usable mana.
And you did not suffer brain death?

Same way you do not
1) Bleed to death.
2) Dehydrate to death.
3) Lose limbs... to death.
4) Get intoxicated to death.
5) Burn to death.
6) Get a traumatic brain injury even though the blunt weapon animation goes is aimed at your head... to death.

Dellinger Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:46 pm

Xeek, thank you for making clear the acknowledgement as to your concerns being addressed.

I would ask the other clutter stop and get taken elsewhere, possibly in a *insert whatever forum you like here: thanks Soifa* post labelled 'debate'. No need to delete them here, because they're already here and can be referred to. Feel free to link this point for evidence in the other post. I will not be deleting the debate's progress, because then that's an -ultimate- waste of everyone's time. And that would -ultimately- piss me off that we would have then wasted hours of my time for nothing to be done with that information.

Debate talk ends here now. Please take it to another thread. =D

Any more concerns that I may appease or comment on about -the power- specifically? Soifa, you first, considering you originally approved the first bit, and the commentary in relation to the power may have changed your opinion.

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