Glacia's Final Explosion....though not so final.

Just something I wanted to input about Auto-killing, Dell. You covered a lot already, I don't need to restate it.

AUTO-KILLING = AUTOMATICALLY-killing
Automatically: Acting or operating in a manner essentially independent of external influence or control.

In this case, the external influence would be the intended target(you, the player character).
If it weren't completely automatic, the player character being targeted would not be able to do anything, it would be more like this.

Glacia: -casts her final explosion and releases it, destroying everyone in this thread-

See? No one could do anything.

It's actually more like this(at the moment).

Glacia: -spends forever concentrating super hard and loading her super awesome magic-
Other people: -if they want to, they can slap her in the face with a trout and ruin the spell, or just poke her in the eye or anything. She needs to concentrate, so she can't really stop you without dropping the spell. Or they can slowly walk away and still live-
Spell: Oh noes, I'm lost D:
Other people: Yaaay, we're safe because we didn't stand around and let her blow us up. Wooo.

Not particularly independent from external influence. If you WANT to stand around and get blown up...that's not really anyone else's fault, in my opinion.

Xeek wrote:I'd like to clear somethings up to;

Transformation has always been a way to dodge the dragon's attack(and me to dodge Aura's fireball in PvP), would someone transforming during this, null it's effects because of 'the great out burst of power', or some jazz like that? I wasn't aware that invincibility frames were an IC thing. Do we dodge fireballs when we toss a paper airplane, too? Idle questions, though glacia should still answer you.

I see in the Wiki, fire enchants do not lower the damage to one, however, I -think- (Will prove when I can), it does lower some damage. The same issue happened with Aura, apparently nexon made it to so either the damage from magic attack or magic mastery would be calculated after some protection settings. Meaning, while you will not takefull damage for her fireball, So the question(finally), is would wearing fire enchants or using fire shield, lower the damage? The skill is not ICly fire-oriented.


I think you suggested 'one month injuries', you should keep in mind, Milliteans have all sort of healing magic, and they are known for their ability to withstand very powerful attack, while we may have added to an RP element, Milliteans may not even be able to getting burned. Dev plays on the role that Milliteans recover quickly, but don't you think one month is a bit too long? Specially if you are a victim. One month is one RL day, isn't it? At least, I'm pretty sure that's what glacia meant. (Like I would say year of IC recovery, but mean week. Y'know?)


Is it a 50/50 chance, or the person decides? If yes to the first, how will it be determined? 50/50 seems more of something for someone deciding if they live or not to go on in order to be fair. Something that, if the victim decided to roll a die to, they can look at for reference.


Edit: Just to tie a few loose ends, would glacia be able to cast this from her 'magical protection bubble'? If you read the bubble power completely, you'd know the answer. :>

Besides that last thing, most of those are my speculations.

I'll go tank a dragons fireball this week to see if explosion resistance lowers the damage or not.


I will say this though, 1 month recuperation time doesn't seem enough.

The power coming from this attack is huge so the shockwave alone would be enough to kill humans within range, everyone seems to be focusing on the point of impact, but this shockwave could just kill Glacia right there and then due to internal bleeding, hemorrhaging, or rip limbs straight off.

Which leads me to this, if she successfully launches her attack, and is then killed shortly after, is the skill cool down reset?

Soifa Toten wrote:Just something I wanted to input about Auto-killing, Dell. You covered a lot already, I don't need to restate it.

AUTO-KILLING = AUTOMATICALLY-killing
Automatically: Acting or operating in a manner essentially independent of external influence or control.

In this case, the external influence would be the intended target(you, the player character).
If it weren't completely automatic, the player character being targeted would not be able to do anything, it would be more like this.

Glacia: -casts her final explosion and releases it, destroying everyone in this thread-

See? No one could do anything.

It's actually more like this(at the moment).

Glacia: -spends forever concentrating super hard and loading her super awesome magic-
Other people: -if they want to, they can slap her in the face with a trout and ruin the spell, or just poke her in the eye or anything. She needs to concentrate, so she can't really stop you without dropping the spell. Or they can slowly walk away and still live-
Spell: Oh noes, I'm lost D:
Other people: Yaaay, we're safe because we didn't stand around and let her blow us up. Wooo.

Not particularly independent from external influence. If you WANT to stand around and get blown up...that's not really anyone else's fault, in my opinion.

What is meant by auto-killing, and the reason that is different from auto-hit, meaning no matter how your character is built there is no way to live from the attack. You can dodge it, yes which is why it's not auto-hitting, but once you are hit, no matter your defense you will die, specially with that you said lower, since the attack is not a fire element, not even dragon fireball can be used to show the damage. Which is why I am refering to this as aut-killing. Now, some people may say "Put your head in a guillotine, is that auto-hitting and should be banned?"
No, if you put your head in a guillotine, you may have a really strong neck, maybe some person who request scales stronger than Xeek's? Since Glacia is not providing the damage herself, instead of just saying 'it's this much', no player can withstand the attack.

And that is the main problem with this power. And why it is unfair for anyone else.

May I remind you, as Aura previously stated, one of the reasons the power thread was to prevent people from being stronger IC than OOC.

Xeek wrote:I'd like to clear somethings up to;

Transformation has always been a way to dodge the dragon's attack(and me to dodge Aura's fireball in PvP), would someone transforming during this, null it's effects because of 'the great out burst of power', or some jazz like that? I wasn't aware that invincibility frames were an IC thing. Do we dodge fireballs when we toss a paper airplane, too? Idle questions, though glacia should still answer you.
Well, I meant with transformation(notice I didn't say persona) because they can count as a large amount of power, so is more reasonable for them to be able to withstand the attack. Though.. personas might work too.. depending what it IC.

I see in the Wiki, fire enchants do not lower the damage to one, however, I -think- (Will prove when I can), it does lower some damage. The same issue happened with Aura, apparently nexon made it to so either the damage from magic attack or magic mastery would be calculated after some protection settings. Meaning, while you will not takefull damage for her fireball, So the question(finally), is would wearing fire enchants or using fire shield, lower the damage? The skill is not ICly fire-oriented. So, aside from -explosion equipment, nothing can lower the damage?


I think you suggested 'one month injuries', you should keep in mind, Milliteans have all sort of healing magic, and they are known for their ability to withstand very powerful attack, while we may have added to an RP element, Milliteans may not even be able to getting burned. Dev plays on the role that Milliteans recover quickly, but don't you think one month is a bit too long? Specially if you are a victim. One month is one RL day, isn't it? At least, I'm pretty sure that's what glacia meant. (Like I would say year of IC recovery, but mean week. Y'know?) No... she meant a real life month. She later continues, "I don't think getting blown up and walking the same RL day is very...viable." So, IC wise they'd be injured for four years.

Is it a 50/50 chance, or the person decides? If yes to the first, how will it be determined? 50/50 seems more of something for someone deciding if they live or not to go on in order to be fair. Something that, if the victim decided to roll a die to, they can look at for reference.
But, more will increases your chances? Would that be taken into order? I USUALLY roll a die for these sort of things, or have Oora do it.


Edit: Just to tie a few loose ends, would glacia be able to cast this from her 'magical protection bubble'? If you read the bubble power completely, you'd know the answer. :> Like I said.. making sure those knots are tied.

Besides that last thing, most of those are my speculations.

Does paper throwing have a load time?

Well rested and ready to tackle responses.

1) I thought when Dell posted, he asked non-colors to not post. At least that's what he told me on MSN. Soooo...I'll talk to him about that when he logs on. But for now, Xeek stop posting and let the colored people post more please. Thank you.

Dellinger wrote:To everyone in this post:

Thank you for your input. I'd like to take the time to address this power and learn more specifically about what glacia wants out of it, how glacia wants it to work, to have a clear mechanic for it, and things relating to it. I have some questions based upon all the points brought up above, and I believe Soifa does as well. If I may kindly request that you allow us time to clarify without a doubt where this power will end up on the level spectrum, I would greatly appreciate it. After that, I feel the post will be more open to general response from the members. After all, this is possibly a FEC, and council rules and evaluates FECs. But I do sincerely appreciate all of the input this thread has received thus far. It's believe it sets the stage for narrowing down what this ability's final stage will be.

Basically he is asking for anyone not in the council to stop posting. This means you Xeek.


2) Soifa made some Valid points in response. While the skill would be a coin flip (I think that's fair) to determine whether a person HIT with the explosion gives put into Deadly or dies, the skill itself is made for DESTRUCTION. You know, OBLITERATION. Running on game mechanics, anyone at full health could survive this. Easily. However, ICly I don't think that'd be possible, especially if you sit there and watch Glacia finish the skill only to be right beside her when it launches. In fact, if you ARE stupid enough to do that...you don't deserve the coin flip...that should be a straight up death. You have control of your character's actions, so if they want to play it stupid, they are going to die. However, if you are a reasonable distance away, the coin flip would apply. This gives a fair chance if you die or not, and since there is the possibility you DON'T die, it's NOT auto-killing. The only real auto-kill scenario is if you decide to be right beside her. Which if you do...I'm sorry, but honestly the character deserves to die.

About the things Soifa mentioned, I'll just quotehack here.

Xeek wrote:
I'd like to clear somethings up to;

Transformation has always been a way to dodge the dragon's attack(and me to dodge Aura's fireball in PvP), would someone transforming during this, null it's effects because of 'the great out burst of power', or some jazz like that? I wasn't aware that invincibility frames were an IC thing. Do we dodge fireballs when we toss a paper airplane, too? Idle questions, though glacia should still answer you. As far as I'm concerned, invincibility frames aren't an IC thing. I really don't thing it will be an IC way to dodge this. Like Soifa brought up, I don't think throwing a paper airplane ICly is going to protect you from an explosion. To me, that's just game mechanics that seem to not agree with IC logic. Transforming and Personas, I'm going to also say no to. While they give the frames ingame, ICly I don't think someone like Mari transforming into a dragon is going to give her the godmode ability to avoid everything ever. In that sense, invincibility frames ARE an auto-dodge.

I see in the Wiki, fire enchants do not lower the damage to one, however, I -think- (Will prove when I can), it does lower some damage. The same issue happened with Aura, apparently nexon made it to so either the damage from magic attack or magic mastery would be calculated after some protection settings. Meaning, while you will not takefull damage for her fireball, So the question(finally), is would wearing fire enchants or using fire shield, lower the damage? The skill is not ICly fire-oriented. This. I have stated before, the actual skill, both ICly and the dragon fireball it's being semi-based on, are not lowered with fire enchants. This actual skill isn't elementally orientated.

I think you suggested 'one month injuries', you should keep in mind, Milliteans have all sort of healing magic, and they are known for their ability to withstand very powerful attack, while we may have added to an RP element, Milliteans may not even be able to getting burned. Dev plays on the role that Milliteans recover quickly, but don't you think one month is a bit too long? Specially if you are a victim. One month is one RL day, isn't it? At least, I'm pretty sure that's what glacia meant. (Like I would say year of IC recovery, but mean week. Y'know?) One month is one RL day, yes. I think for a Milletian, that's plenty time to recover. However...if you are a Tuatha/Erinn-Born...expect a LOT longer.

Is it a 50/50 chance, or the person decides? If yes to the first, how will it be determined? 50/50 seems more of something for someone deciding if they live or not to go on in order to be fair. Something that, if the victim decided to roll a die to, they can look at for reference. I explained this above.


Edit: Just to tie a few loose ends, would glacia be able to cast this from her 'magical protection bubble'? If you read the bubble power completely, you'd know the answer. :>

Now for Teo.

Not sure when Prarie Dragon spawns, but Desert Dragon is Wednesday.
Also, as stated in the original post, when the attack is launched, it takes one month RL time to use again. The cool down would not reset for any given reason.

Also...if dungeons are destroyed...they can be rebuilt. Half of G3 is about restoring dungeons. But then again, it is up to the council to determine if they would be allowed to be blown up, which I don't think they would. Plus you have to consider, would Glacia really do that? Honestly...she wouldn't.


As Mithos said...the damage is equal to about a couple full thunders. If you want damage, I'll gladly throw all my MP's worth of thunder at you. In honesty...that can tally up to even MORE than 10k damage. And more than likely, you WON'T be living.

Misread something but most explosions death radius is half of the given initial explosion, so lets say your attack blew up 1800 worth of area, the shockwave would kill or severely injure anyone within 900 ft.

Quick clarification: I asked for colors to be allowed to post concerns, questions, and clarifications so that way we don't get bogged completely down in arguments and various other things while we find exactly what glacia wants and, more importantly, what power level that would be. I only bold those so that the intention is clear. The 'after that, the post will be open to general response' was the statement I would have hoped made the earlier statement clear. My apologies to all if it wasn't.

At the moment, I just woke up and am taking care of laundry. I'll get to reading everything and responding soon, unless Teo or Soifa had follow ups. -salutes-

Teoxihuitl wrote:Misread something but most explosions death radius is half of the given initial explosion, so lets say your attack blew up 1800 worth of area, the shockwave would kill or severely injure anyone within 900 ft.

Right, so if they were within that range, would you say it could possibly be the explosion puts them into deadly, then the shockwave kills, or vice Versa?

What I'm trying to have is just an explosion of mana basically, not so much for a shockwave or so.

EDIT: Misinterpretted the quote here. Going to find a good medium for Distance of explosion + Shockwave. Looking at total distance of 2100 or 2400 atm.

2100 is 1400 explosion, 700 shockwave.

2400 is 1600 explo, 800 shockwave.

-pats this thing- Ok, 2100 total distance seems good. That's an initial hit of 1400, and then a shockwave that can deal some collateral damage that extends 700 out of the explosion. Any eyes want to look at this?

With the shockwave in place I can approve.

Ohyeah.

Forgot you edited this.

Approved.

In the OP, you have the cool down is 3 years for max charge, yet you say the cool down is 4 years in a previous sentence?
And how would you factor the damage for this? What damage would be applied?

1) Read.

2) Damage = If you die, you die. If you don't die, you are in deadly.

Glaceon wrote:
2) Damage = If you die, you die. If you don't die, you are in deadly.

He means how do you REPLICATE the damage done to someone?

That's my question too. x_x


Cause I'm still not seeing that anywhere unless I overlooked it.

I'm sure it was stated several times the damage can't really be replicated due to the fact the skill is meant to kill people or severely injure them if not killing them. Basically, I don't think the skill NEEDS damage to be replicated, as possibly stated by Mithos. And maybe Dellinger, I'll have to read his posts again.

Well, is it a FEC? Or a miniPlot? Because it explains it there crystal clear.

Mini-plots: These powers are a bit stronger than above. They are like level 2 powers, but can be a bit stronger. A good example would be the currently unavailable soul powers. You still need an OOC representation.

FEC: The highest level of power, these can be very powerful, and have to be under watch and approved by the council. They do not need an OOC representation, but can't be god almighty. In exchange, the character must die or be critically weakened or injured. They can never again achieve this level.

MiniPlot would suggest that it is reusable, but requires OOC representation. FEC doesn't require it, but as stated, can't only be used once.

As Mithos put it

Also, about the damage output... It's completely irrelevant. If you do get hit, you die... Unless you have some kind of Wings of Eclipse power. If you -really- want to see a damage output OOC, make it seventeen fully charged thunders and thirteen fireballs.

Mithos is wrong though. It's completely relevant to if it's a FEC or MiniPlot. It should follow the rules stated for whichever one it is.

Basically, what you are doing is auto-damage. Nothing/very few can be done. You can have your character to be the king of explosions, and have explosion reduction equipment to turn anything to like.. 5 damage. But they won't be able to do anything about it once they are hit.

Anything else, can be tanked by a certain way, except this.

Umm...explosion resist reduces damage to 20% of what it was. I've still died to wming a batch of exploding saghagins in Barri Adv with explosion resist gear on.

And it was even stated there IS a way to tank it. Wings of Eclipse-based power.

May I remind you all why the power thread was created in the first place?

It was created to stop powers like this. People were creating powers they can not replicate IC. Now, Glacia is a very strong character OOC. I don't see a reason why you can not rank skills to show the damage, and put fail safe like everyone else has done for their powers.
If not, we are not just opening a can of worms for powers like this to return, but we are defeating the purpose this darn thing was created.

Glaceon wrote:Umm...explosion resist reduces damage to 20% of what it was. I've still died to wming a batch of exploding saghagins in Barri Adv with explosion resist gear on.

And it was even stated there IS a way to tank it. Wings of Eclipse-based power.

HOW? There is no way to tell the damage. And wings of eclipse carries the damage over.
If it does 50k damage, it can't be tanked even with eclipse.

If it does 1k damage, my eclipse will eat it like nothing.
There is no way to test it.

If it NEEDS damage...It's like being hit with my mana's worth of fireballs....while meditation and in DK, with Demigod on. If the person has fire elementals for whatever reason, Spear of God can be used for damage as well as the fireballs, since the skill isn't elemental? Also

Xeek wrote:May I remind you all why the power thread was created in the first place?

It was created to stop powers like this. People were creating powers they can not replicate IC. Now, Glacia is a very strong character OOC. I don't see a reason why you can not rank skills to show the damage, and put fail safe like everyone else has done for their powers.
If not, we are not just opening a can of worms for powers like this to return, but we are defeating the purpose this darn thing was created.

Umm....this power has a TON of limits and restrictions on it as a whole. It's fairly balanced. It's a heavily damaging move, but has heavy consequences as well. Death, RL Month cooldown. Cooldowns for being interupted in general..

Also, the ONLY place this is auto-kill is if you are standing beside Glacia when she explodes, and didn't even do anything to stop her. As stated...you -deserve- to die in that case. :>

Or, if you are in a near by building, while she is casting it in her room.
I never said it's auto-kill, but it's auto-damage.

Now, see that is more like it. Why not require it to be a REASONABLE amount of spear of lights? Like, the amount it would take to charge up those fireballs.(40 seconds)
I count.. two spear of lights. (15second cool down, and 2 load time, leaves you with 6 seconds extra).
If you wish to make it 3 fireballs, you get more. THAT seems reasonable.

Well....I have r9 fireball....and even without trans, I can get off 4 fireballs. So that's like 8 fireballs worth of damage on a good roll. Then a spear of god. God, not light, which hits for about 17k-20k damage

Glaceon wrote:If it NEEDS damage...It's like being hit with my mana's worth of fireballs....while meditation and in DK, with Demigod on. If the person has fire elementals for whatever reason, Spear of God can be used for damage as well as the fireballs, since the skill isn't elemental? Also


Also, the ONLY place this is auto-kill is if you are standing beside Glacia when she explodes, and didn't even do anything to stop her. As stated...you -deserve- to die in that case. :>

As long as there's some representation for damage, then it follows miniPlot rules, and was really my only concern.


As for the deserving to die? It's a little harsh, considering someone wouldn't automatically assume anyone has any special kind of powers. Or, you know, that would be metagaming.