Satch's Geass

Xeek Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:46 pm

IC Skill Name: Ward of Absolute Suspension
Power Class: Unique
OOC Representation: Lullaby.
Description: The ability to suspend the subjective sense of time of everyone within a given range. Those under its effect are frozen in place for the duration of its activation. When activated, a Geass sigil manifests in his right eye and projects a red sphere representing the area of effect. It's range is determined by how well he has gotten at it(rank of the skill). Physical obstacles or electronic equipment do not hinder its effectiveness, nor does it require eye contact. The same people can be frozen repeatedly.

The weakness of the Geass is that his heart stops when he uses it, limiting its activation to short bursts. The range also determines the amount of strain it puts on him. Finally, it is unable to stop inanimate objects or physical phenomena such as speed and momentum (for example, it cannot stop a clock nor a projectile in mid-flight) After being transferred to a new world, his geass doesn't always work(75percent chance). Edit:1-This power also does not work on those who lack their own brain or have limited brain power(does not count stupid people).
Edit:2-Because Erinn is a different world, the geass isn't as strong, and those not looking directly at the source(eye) have less chances of falling under the condition. Edit:3- For the skill to affect someone, their head must be in the AoE range, from below the neck it won't count.

Explain relation: Lullaby has a 75percent change of putting the target to sleep, creating a similar stun effect to the Geass.
Notes: I am fully aware the skill is not out yet, I am posting the power early, so my character can use it when it's out. Until my character possess the skill, I will NOT(and can not) use this skill. Edit: For now, Satch only has one eye with the geass.
Level: 2

The followings are a clip of how the power would work while seen in a camera, and how it would react to projectiles, as well as being spammed.
The clips contain spoilers of the series "Code Geass".

Spoiler:

Dellinger Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:04 am

Xeek wrote:The ability to suspend the subjective sense of time of everyone within a given range. Those under its effect are frozen in place for the duration of its activation. When activated, a Geass sigil manifests in his right eye and projects a red sphere representing the area of effect. It's range is determined by how well he has gotten at it(rank of the skill). Physical obstacles or electronic equipment do not hinder its effectiveness, nor does it require eye contact. The same people can be frozen repeatedly.

Simply put, I need you to expand on how this works. This isn't an adequate description of the total affects on both the individual doing the action and the individuals affected by the action.

First thoughts, however, are that this is highly abusable (also possibly god-XXXX). Also, if it was going to be approved as is, it would be approved under FEC understandings. Lullaby as a skill puts someone to sleep [far as I know]. This isn't putting someone to sleep at all, and is arguably (and certainly) more powerful. As demonstrated by the guy pulling the one person's weapon easily out of his hand and putting it to his head. >.>

Adhamh Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:07 am

It seems overpowered. Freezing one's perception of time is very different from lulling them to sleep. When frozen in time, the character won't be able to do -anything- which is forcing actions upon someone else's character which makes it god-like. When falling asleep, they can easily be re-awakened. Either way, we don't know everything about the skill Lullaby and it's best to wait until we actually have access to it to see/try the skill out for ourselves and learn the specifics/parameters of it.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:17 am

Dellinger wrote:

Simply put, I need you to expand on how this works. This isn't an adequate description of the total affects on both the individual doing the action and the individuals affected by the action.

When Satch activates his Geass, his eye moves similar to Rolo's, creating a fieldlike area(As does lullaby). Anyone trapped within the area has a 75percent chance(in-game) of being mentally frozen. While mentally frozen target can not control his body(similar to in-game sleep). They will stay like that through the duration of the spell. (Which is up to 9 seconds, at rank 1)

Edit: If I were to hit someone while in this spell, they would be knocked back, like normal.

First thoughts, however, are that this is highly abusable (also possibly god-XXXX). Also, if it was going to be approved as is, it would be approved under FEC understandings. Lullaby as a kill puts someone to sleep. This isn't putting someone to sleep at all, and is arguably (and certainly) more powerful. As demonstrated by the guy pulling the one person's weapon easily out of his hand and putting it to his head. >.>

I completely disagree. Yes, it is different from sleep, if not, I would not be requesting it. In both situation, the target is left defenseless. If I were a bard, and would put you to sleep, I'd have 9 seconds(at rank 1) to go and stab you in the neck, in which, you can not do anything.

Or, I can choose to frozen blast you, and stab you as well. So as you can see, the game has similar powers already.

It seems overpowered. Freezing one's perception of time is very different from lulling them to sleep. When frozen in time, the character won't be able to do -anything- which is forcing actions upon someone else's character which makes it god-like. When falling asleep, they can easily be re-awakened. Either way, we don't know everything about the skill Lullaby and it's best to wait until we actually have access to it to see/try the skill out for ourselves and learn the specifics/parameters of it.

Ooron, they provide the same effect. You are seeing this as if the spell would last forever. It last 9 real life seconds. Similar to sleep, the target can not move until hit nor the time is up. If I put you under a sleep spell, and you wake up before the correct time, you would be auto-playing as well. It's no different than frozen blast, as I stated. I can use frozen blast to stun a person for about 15+seconds. In which, I can force actions on them as well.

The same works with enthralling spells. Also, the limitations are posted up. Koreans already have this power with a final draft.

Dellinger Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:47 am

... I don't feel an adequate defense against concerns regarding abuse normally resemble "I could abuse these mechanics by forcing these in-game skills." On top of my own KISS [keep it simple, sally] rules... if you want to abuse the mechanics for RP purposes... use the mechanics? You also say range is determined by rank, but then later imply the range is malleable based on his whimsy. You're going to need to clarify that as that's two different things.

And let me rephrase. FEC is like a GM power. A game master. Someone who has a right to control things to some degree. This power grants that. Therefore... equatable to FEC.

Related Note: I assume people would have words if a lot of individuals began abusing OOC skills for IC kills. That or they just wouldn't RP with the person responsible anymore. I don't see a reason this power is needed, to be frank. With it's rate of success, and with the fact that I may sit in an RP for a good 30 minutes of what may be an hour long RP doing nothing while your character begins to complain of heart issues...

That possibility does not ring fun. And imo, unless it's FEC, it doesn't really enhance other people's RP experiences. It just gives you an ace. -shrugs-

As common sense dictates, wouldn't it be more fun if people could actually RP in an RP? I would think so.

Glaceon Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:57 am

Curious...HOW exactly is the character able to do this? Sorry, I don't watch anime like everyone else. You show clips of the anime yes, but how is the character ICly able to do this, within the standards of OUR realm, and not the anime.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:06 am

Dellinger wrote:... I don't feel an adequate defense against concerns regarding abuse normally resemble "I could abuse these mechanics by forcing these in-game skills." On top of my own KISS [keep it simple, sally] rules... if you want to abuse the mechanics for RP purposes... use the mechanics? You also say range is determined by rank, but then later imply the range is malleable based on his whimsy. You're going to need to clarify that as that's two different things.

It's not abuse the mechanics, it's using an existing power. Sleeping/Frozen blast are both IC skills in-game, which provide a strict purpose. If you put someone under a sleep spell there is usually a set time until the character can wake up. During that time, the character can be killed.

And it's both, the stronger he is, the bigger range he'll be able to use, but using a large range will also hurt him more.

And let me rephrase. FEC is like a GM power. A game master. Someone who has a right to control things to some degree. This power grants that. Therefore... equatable to FEC.

I am not controlling any element except my character. My character is using a spell that affects the people around him. It's no different than fire bolting someone. This skill has ways to block it, as well as it can fail on it's own. You can proceed to strike my character or jump out of distance. The skill takes a while before activating.

Related Note: I assume people would have words if a lot of individuals began abusing OOC skills for IC kills. That or they just wouldn't RP with the person responsible anymore. I don't see a reason this power is needed, to be frank. With it's rate of success, and with the fact that I may sit in an RP for a good 30 minutes of what may be an hour long RP doing nothing while your character begins to complain of heart issues...

Dellinger, the powers I listed are not OOC skills. Frozen blast and Lullaby are IC skills provided by the game and it's lore. Other skills that resemble would be anything done by the ice dragon. The point being, skills like this exist, unlike the ice dragon, this has limitations. Not only can it kill my character, but it does not always work.

That possibility does not ring fun. And imo, unless it's FEC, it doesn't really enhance other people's RP experiences. It just gives you an ace. -shrugs-

As common sense dictates, wouldn't it be more fun if people could actually RP in an RP? I would think so.

RP is not about fairness, people are stronger than others. Xeek is stronger than Satch, Teo is stronger than Xeek, it's a cycle. This power is nothing more than a reskin that instead of his bard powers coming from a lute, they come from his eyes.

While asleep, the target can not fight back. Upon being knocked down, the target takes damage. If I wanted to, IC wise, I could put them to sleep, and cut their throat. Or frozen blast and do the same. If someone feels the power is too strong IC, the duel can be taken OOC. This power is in fact weaker than Lullaby, while it does not require an instrument, he can not use it every 3 seconds (such is the cooldown of lullaby).

I don't think you have proven to me that the skill is stronger than any current skill, not even lullaby.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:08 am

Glaceon wrote:Curious...HOW exactly is the character able to do this? Sorry, I don't watch anime like everyone else. You show clips of the anime yes, but how is the character ICly able to do this, within the standards of OUR realm, and not the anime.

The same way your character is able to transform, or anyone else has a power.
In the anime, the Geass is a gift/curse that is tied to the character. Satch's geass is attached to his soul, therefore, he was able to bring it. It's no different than Xaver's transformation powers, or Soifa's dream eating thingy.

Edit: If you are asking how he USES it? Magic.

Dellinger Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:29 am

OOC in the sense means "Exists in game and are not primarily a creation of the person," IE - not a power. Please re-evaluate your criticisms of my earlier comments. Also, you listed weakness that in that last post that were not originally in the weaknesses. I would advise actually putting them there so that way the actual weaknesses are accounted for.

I don't think you have proven to me that the skill is stronger than any current skill, not even lullaby.

Simply put, you haven't really proven to me that this enchances RP either. RP may not be about fairness, but it's not about 'insta-gibbing' either. RPing is about interaction for the most part. This isn't a simple reskin, and can actively stop interaction in an RP.

The problem is not primarily about fairness. The problem is that I wouldn't want to RP with you or anyone with a power similar. You gave examples of abusing an OOC mechanic that allows for the same outcome as what you could do with this. If someone did that, that'd probably be the last time I RP with them. There's little interaction unless the individual fails, and... with r1 of any skill the chances of that aren't always necessarily low. Then your argument for 'schism in skill levels' just tells me not to RP with you lest I just lose my character. =P

What would then be the point of RPing with you? What does this enhance in the RP? What fun is the RP for the other individual in question? This effects more than just your character, therefore, these questions should be asked, shouldn't they? Please answer the question directly and to the point, as you sometimes seem to dodge the pressing concerns. =]

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:52 am

Dellinger wrote:OOC in the sense means "Exists in game and are not primarily a creation of the person," IE - not a power. Please re-evaluate your criticisms of my earlier comments. Also, you listed weakness that in that last post that were not originally in the weaknesses. I would advise actually putting them there so that way the actual weaknesses are accounted for.

I posted it, it's the first weakness, that is limited to short burst because his heart would stop. For obvious reasons, if his heart keeps stopping, he'll die.

Simply put, you haven't really proven to me that this enchances RP either. RP may not be about fairness, but it's not about 'insta-gibbing' either. RPing is about interaction for the most part. This isn't a simple reskin, and can actively stop interaction in an RP.

I am not sure but, this statement makes it seem like you agree on the fact the skill is not over powered.

The problem is not primarily about fairness. The problem is that I wouldn't want to RP with you or anyone with a power similar. You gave examples of abusing an OOC mechanic that allows for the same outcome as what you could do with this. If someone did that, that'd probably be the last time I RP with them. There's little interaction unless the individual fails, and... with r1 of any skill the chances of that aren't always necessarily low. Then your argument for 'schism in skill levels' just tells me not to RP with you lest I just lose my character. =P

Frankly, if someone stops RPing with me because of this power, I wouldn't care. And to me, it seems that your opinion is the main concern you have with this power. While I highly value your opinion, I know RPing is about interaction, but if your character is under a stun spell or something similar, it is your fault for getting yourself into the trouble. Also, if you stop RPing someone because they are losing, then you aren't really following the rules. Dying is sad, yes, but it's part of RPing. This power, can not be forced on someone. There is not only a 75 percent chance of it working, but it can be stopped before activating.

What would then be the point of RPing with you? What does this enhance in the RP? What fun is the RP for the other individual in question? This effects more than just your character, therefore, these questions should be asked, shouldn't they? Please answer the question directly and to the point, as you sometimes seem to dodge the pressing concerns. =]

One man's trash is another's treasure I always say.
With this said, should we avoid everyone who knows frozen blast? Or anyone who learns Lullaby? Or has a power related to summoning an ice dragon? In fact, Ralvery's frozen blast is able to freeze monsters with 3k+ Cp, meaning any player who isn't wearing redscars will get frozen.

Now, frozen blast has a .75second load time. Ralvery's freeze time is longer than the cooldown, meaning he can literally freeze lock you, allowing you to take a step in-game, if any at all. Should people avoid Ralvery then? Or Glacia? (Well, yes, but....). As you can see Dellinger, IC wise it's possible for it to be done.

I assure you I am not ignoring them on purpose, I have nothing to hide on the power nor do I feel is over powered. If I have missed some of the more pressing issue, feel free to post them in list form. If you wish, I can also start posting links or quotes of how certain IC powers can be used.

Dellinger Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:10 am

First, weakness statement referred to time. You didn't imply it had a 'set-up' time. Hence why you should add it. Level 2 power being applied for... ya might have wanted to specify that?

Second, ya misinterpreted the point of the statement entirely. Might wanna reread it.

Third, you're missing the entire point. There are two points to 'being in the spirit of RP.' Not RPing with someone because someone may have a power that is insta-gib and basically demands that character be respected lest something happens...? Might be over-exaggeration, but... you're blaming someone else for not liking that you asked for something that can be abused and take the fun out of the RP, in that case, unless you think having everyone tippy-toe around a character with a specific power is in 'the spirit of the RP.'

Fourth, you're still missing the point. Putting it in list form will not assist you in understand why I don't like this power if you haven't understood it after a couple of posts. Again, justifying your power with a mechanic you could abuse that is in game isn't acceptable. That's like saying "Well, technically I can god-XXXX because this XXXX lets me god-XXXX." And that's completely unacceptable.

When three of my statements state to some effect you've missed the point, it appears you missed the point. Re-evaluate the 'spirit of the RP' and maybe you'll understand my complaint. There are two sides to responsible RP; your response evaluated one side of it.

Your opinion states it's not OP, while my experience in a grand assortment of mediums including this one indicate this is as god-modding power. Therefore, I won't be approving it. -shrugs-

TL;DR - A 75% chance of god-XXXX that you can interrupt is still god-XXXX.

Glaceon Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:17 am

He dies? lol, basically it's abuseable more so than frozen blast, because it doesn't take up any items. Blizzard crystals are a quanity, they can run out (I'm actually running low on them myself) He can use it to the point where he dies, out for 3 days, which for you isn't an issue considering how frequently you RP with others as is, and then when he is back, his body is perfectly fine and he can abuse it again.

I think you need more specifics limits, Maybe like he can only use it a certain amount of times PER LIFE. Also...prep time is something to consider, so people can actively escape if they don't want their character effected. Honestly, 75% chance to work, but then that still counts as auto-hitting in my books since I don't think it's in the best effort to individually freeze each person to see if it worked.

Now as Dell said, yes it's abuseable, but Frozen blast is capable of freeze locking, but considering you WILL run out of crystals eventually, it is in the same boat as Lullaby. As Glacia currently stands, she can't really do much, but she can freeze someone with her breath, but she is in jail. But yes, I could freeze lock if I wanted to. But I don't, because I rather RP with people and have them have actions. Also a thing to note is while frozen, the ice can't really be broken persay, hence why they have advanced heavy stander while frozen (though pummel still works). So you could attempt to stab or do whatever, but with a thick layer of Ice, I question how efficiently it would work. With this skill, it's basically freezing them and rendering them COMPLETELY vulnerable to whatever. It has a weakness to the user, but if he teams up with someone else, that person has free will to do whatever they want to the others, given the nature of the skill OOCly, just be out of range, then come into range while they are still frozen in time.

Another thing to point out....is if this will work on guards...we'll have to wait for the skill to come out.

If I may request this from you Xeek, and put this power on hold UNTIL the skill is officially released and we get more specifics about it.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:30 am

Dellinger wrote:First, weakness statement referred to time. You didn't imply it had a 'set-up' time. Hence why you should add it. Level 2 power being applied for... ya might have wanted to specify that?

Level 2 means nothing more than the ability provides a different effects than the OOC version. And I did imply a set-up time, in the description of how the power works, it's a very short time, but there is.

Third, you're missing the entire point. There are two points to 'being in the spirit of RP.' Not RPing with someone because someone may have a power that is insta-gib and basically demands that character be respected lest something happens...? Might be over-exaggeration, but... you're blaming someone else for not liking that you asked for something that can be abused and take the fun out of the RP, in that case, unless you think having everyone tippy-toe around a character with a specific power is in 'the spirit of the RP.'

I do not understand your point though, this skill is no more over powered than currently existing ones. I rather someone use this than Ice spear spam me to death, at least with this I have 25percent chance of it not working.

Fourth, you're still missing the point. Putting it in list form will not assist you in understand why I don't like this power if you haven't understood it after a couple of posts. Again, justifying your power with a mechanic you could abuse that is in game isn't acceptable. That's like saying "Well, technically I can god-XXXX because this XXXX lets me god-XXXX." And that's completely unacceptable.

Dellinger, this is uncalled for, and I really expected more from you specially after you posted a thread about constructive criticism. And I am not saying that at all, beside a lute, what is the actual difference between this and lullaby?

[When three of my statements state to some effect you've missed the point, it appears you missed the point. Re-evaluate the 'spirit of the RP' and maybe you'll understand my complaint. There are two sides to responsible RP; your response evaluated one side of it.

Your opinion states it's not OP, while my experience in a grand assortment of mediums including this one indicate this is as god-modding power. Therefore, I won't be approving it. -shrugs-

TL;DR - A 75% chance of god-XXXX that you can interrupt is still god-XXXX.

My opinion does not state it, facts do.

"God Modding" is in essence when someone's character has the ability to do practically anything without limits or boundaries

25percent chance of failure is a limit. The fact if he uses too much, is a limit. I do not see which point I am missing, from what I can tell your point is pretty much the time. It's too over powered. I will admit, it IS a strong power, but it's well represented and well restricted.
Your last few post seem a bit snippy, if you are busy with a real life problem, I suggest you go cool off and then return. I know you have the right not to give an approval, but it would be very unbecoming of you if you did because you did not agree with my power.

Fact is, you have not proven how the skill itself can be used to 'god-XXXX', nor how does it provide a similar effect than the OOC representation. While I have tried my best to show you the skill's restriction as well as it's similarities to the original skill. If you are unaware how the original skill works, you can ask me and I will direct you to the wiki page and show you videos on it in action.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:51 am

Glaceon wrote:He dies? lol, basically it's abuseable more so than frozen blast, because it doesn't take up any items. Blizzard crystals are a quanity, they can run out (I'm actually running low on them myself) He can use it to the point where he dies, out for 3 days, which for you isn't an issue considering how frequently you RP with others as is, and then when he is back, his body is perfectly fine and he can abuse it again.

Frozen blast crystals aren't hard to make. After 5 month, I am finally down to my last 10. I will be making another 200 sometime soon. And running out of blizzard crystals? That takes less than 3 days to make 200. I can make 200 in about 1-2 hours(being lazy)

Edit: Also, considering killing the the main issue Dell is pointing out, I think dying is a very bad weakness.

I think you need more specifics limits, Maybe like he can only use it a certain amount of times PER LIFE. Also...prep time is something to consider, so people can actively escape if they don't want their character effected. Honestly, 75% chance to work, but then that still counts as auto-hitting in my books since I don't think it's in the best effort to individually freeze each person to see if it worked.

Why would I do that? If Glacia picked up a lute, would you restrict her to certain amount of uses in lullaby? As you are aware, I am quite nice when applying results. If I know someone is going to cry about their character being dead, I either won't kill them, or have the effect not work. Then you wonder why I don't RP with others. They cry over their characters dying way too much.

Now as Dell said, yes it's abuseable, but Frozen blast is capable of freeze locking, but considering you WILL run out of crystals eventually, it is in the same boat as Lullaby. As Glacia currently stands, she can't really do much, but she can freeze someone with her breath, but she is in jail. But yes, I could freeze lock if I wanted to. But I don't, because I rather RP with people and have them have actions. Also a thing to note is while frozen, the ice can't really be broken persay, hence why they have advanced heavy stander while frozen (though pummel still works). So you could attempt to stab or do whatever, but with a thick layer of Ice, I question how efficiently it would work. With this skill, it's basically freezing them and rendering them COMPLETELY vulnerable to whatever. It has a weakness to the user, but if he teams up with someone else, that person has free will to do whatever they want to the others, given the nature of the skill OOCly, just be out of range, then come into range while they are still frozen in time.

How is lullaby in the same boat? DO you run out of music crystals? It's a skill, not a scroll. You can use it as many times as you please. And exactly, you CHOOSE not to. Also, if you noticed in frozen blast, it lowers their defense and protection, meaning they are easy to kill, and that's ICly. Basically, let say you have 5 crystals. That is 50 seconds of flame bursting, let say the ice DOES thaw out, they are still being burned to a crisp because you have 50 seconds to prepare and attack them.

Another thing to point out....is if this will work on guards...we'll have to wait for the skill to come out.

If I may request this from you Xeek, and put this power on hold UNTIL the skill is officially released and we get more specifics about it.

It probably will not work on guards, but neither does frozen blast, does it? Keep in mind, even if it would work on guards, you can't attack them anymore.
So I will keep my request for the powers. I am posting them now because I see people are going to be stubborn.

Also, Lullaby freezes the target in their step, making even seem more like my power.

Dellinger Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:26 am

Simply put, my friend:

You seem to want to make this personal by saying my comments are uncalled for. Let me define why I am planting my foot so firmly in the ground. This is about the power, and about the simple fact that there is a high-chance of controlling someone by nullifying their ability to react with a high probability (which raises the power to mini-plot rather than level 2: please refer to the Powers, Reintroduced post).

I have informed you that this is 'abusable' because of the high-chance paralysis on a non-game skill based upon an in-game skill. You have -compared- it to a in-game skill, not said it is. Now, I'm going to copy this from the powers rule for application:

What will not be permitted
-God-modding (ie: anything that will allow you to auto-hit, auto-dodge, auto-escape, auto-know, auto-perceive, auto-notice, auto-control, auto-heal, or anything else auto. This also includes anything that will make you god-like).
-Power-playing (ie: This includes everything above, especially invulnerability and other such things).
-Anything that has a high chance of use for the above. This will not take into account the proposing guild-member.
-Violation of these will result in a disapproval of the power.

I define high chance in this situation as at 60%, if not less. Considering at that point, it approaches 'affects more often than not.' Defending it against mechanics in game is fine. The fact that this rule exists in the application process justifies me in disapproving of your power. And note, my disapproval revolves solely around the fact that the power violates these; not on anything relating to you as a person or RPer.

You may think my statement uncalled for, but in earnest, I'm following the letter of powers rules. And it really is as simple as that. Being constructive is great when the other party is willing to edit based on criticism given. I warned you it was god-moddish. You opted to not consider the issues at hand seen by three individuals and instead defended it without giving the concerns some weight. One cannot be constructive when one side is not listening.

As rules state above, my actions are already dictated for me. As well, level two indicates that the targetted individual chooses whether it affects them. Putting a 75% chance on it rather than abiding by what is said kind of implies you expect it to succeed more often than not in RPs. As this is above that, well... simply put, it's above level 2, which indicated mini-plot.

Is that clearer?

If you would like suggestions, please ask. If you're willing to work this, then I'm willing to re-open the constructive criticism door if you're willing to work with concerns given to you. Constructivism is a two way street; part of the reason I interjected in Glaceon's power thread because there was no two-way. There was just an accident because neither side was listening. If you would prefer, I will not comment on this thread further, but will allow others to bring up the same concerns of their own volition. It is within your right to request I no longer post in your thread, my friend.

Otherwise, as this grants your character a high-chance power to nullify a large group of individual's ability to respond, effectively controlling them in the 'blue' magic-the-gathering sense, I will again stand by my disapproval.

Dellinger Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:34 am

As an aside, if I lost tact there before that last post, I humbly apologize. The tact boots are once again on, and this shall be addressed simply by the book and by what the rules of the guild say first off.

Tact boots were used in the making of the last post.

Auramune Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:20 am

I would simply like to state, without putting my personal opinion on the power, that the aforementioned rule was in place prior to ice spear, frozen blast, dragon summon freeze, paralyze music, and soon to be lullaby(and maybe more skills.) One of which is approved for Banshee racial, and just as spam able as the skills are, which is the exact same effect as Lullaby. Several of these, which can be 'abused' by in-game means of spamming, leaving the person attacked without a way to defend themselves.

As provided by Soifa in a previous post;

Spoiler:

Now, for my personal opinion:
Xeek, I think you should hold this until the skill is out in game. Though, I understand your reasoning for posting it now xD. *looks at Soifa's bubble power, started in May.* >_>;

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:32 am

Dellinger wrote:

I have informed you that this is 'abusable' because of the high-chance paralysis on a non-game skill based upon an in-game skill. You have -compared- it to a in-game skill, not said it is. Now, I'm going to copy this from the powers rule for application:

Actually, Dellinger, while there is no sort of mental paralysis spell(Yet, I imagine some of them for Puppet Master Skill set), there is Four skills(available to players) that restrict/hold the target.
Ice Spear, while ice spear takes a lot of mana, due to it's speed you can literally spam it, not allowing the target to move.
Frozen Blast, I've stated it's effects before, high ranked users, such as Ralvery, can spam it at a much higher rate than 75(I can prove it to you, as well)
Shadow Spirit, due to it's nature, a lot of requesters use it for some sort of holding power
Lullaby, which does exactly what I am requesting, but instead of stopping the brain, it puts you to sleep.

Now, while yes, any target who gets the Geass activated on them will be defenseless. But, with what you are saying, any sleep or stun power can do the same. If I frozen blast a target, they can NOT move until the time is done, therefore, they are mine to do what I please.

Now, as for my power itself, all it is doing is putting you in a different mental state than sleep. If I request to use magic music without an instrument, I'd have the exact same thing. Yes, sleeping you can wake up from, but the spell last 9 seconds at it's highest rank, if someone puts you in a sleeping spell, you are not going to wake up within 9 seconds. In those 9 seconds, you can go and do the exact same thing my character would do.

Basically, as I've stated multiple times, this power is basically the same as requesting Lullaby without a musical instrument.

What will not be permitted
-God-modding (ie: anything that will allow you to auto-hit, auto-dodge, auto-escape, auto-know, auto-perceive, auto-notice, auto-control, auto-heal, or anything else auto. This also includes anything that will make you god-like).
-Power-playing (ie: This includes everything above, especially invulnerability and other such things).
-Anything that has a high chance of use for the above. This will not take into account the proposing guild-member.
-Violation of these will result in a disapproval of the power.

This does not allow auto-hitting anymore than putting someone to sleep. It's an IC action, if you attack a sleeping person, you would be breaking the rules. If you attack someone that is frozen blasted, you would be breaking the same rules. This puts the character in a vulnerable state, it does not allow me to instantly hit the target. In-fact, if a character notices the Geass being activated they can load some sort of defense skill. As you might have seen in the video, Rolo(the one with the Geass) froze the people, but the robots still fired.

I define high chance in this situation as at 60%, if not less. Considering at that point, it approaches 'affects more often than not.' Defending it against mechanics in game is fine. The fact that this rule exists in the application process justifies me in disapproving of your power. And note, my disapproval revolves solely around the fact that the power violates these; not on anything relating to you as a person or RPer.

You may think my statement uncalled for, but in earnest, I'm following the letter of powers rules. And it really is as simple as that. Being constructive is great when the other party is willing to edit based on criticism given. I warned you it was god-moddish. You opted to not consider the issues at hand seen by three individuals and instead defended it without giving the concerns some weight. One cannot be constructive when one side is not listening.

As rules state above, my actions are already dictated for me. As well, level two indicates that the targetted individual chooses whether it affects them. Putting a 75% chance on it rather than abiding by what is said kind of implies you expect it to succeed more often than not in RPs. As this is above that, well... simply put, it's above level 2, which indicated mini-plot.

Is that clearer? [/quote]
I am listening, and I am understanding, I just do not see it your way. This power may be a strong power, but it's not god-modding. While I do admit 75percent is high, I understand it can fail many times in a row. And unless a player is constantly not being affected, I will not enforce the successrate by other means (Aka: Dice or PvP). My power may be strong, but as I stated several times, is no stronger than Lullaby, is infact weak.

Faults vs Lullaby:
Lullaby can be spammed every 3 seconds, while the freeze time is 9. This can not.
If your character is Lullaby'd, they stop in their tract, This skill will allow the character to finish their last movement, more or less.
Lullaby increases the damage done to the target, this does not. IC-wise, both attacks allow the same actions to be performed.
One weakness I did forgot(editing the top now), this skill does not work on anything without an active brain(AKA golems, skeleton, zombies, ect)

If you would like suggestions, please ask. If you're willing to work this, then I'm willing to re-open the constructive criticism door if you're willing to work with concerns given to you. Constructivism is a two way street; part of the reason I interjected in Glaceon's power thread because there was no two-way. There was just an accident because neither side was listening. If you would prefer, I will not comment on this thread further, but will allow others to bring up the same concerns of their own volition. It is within your right to request I no longer post in your thread, my friend.

I will not request anyone to exit my thread unless they are being offensive, that to me seems childish. While I do value your opinion, and I do see is a very strong power, and I would consider changing the label to 'mini-plot', but this is a permanent power who will possibly increase(I ,of course, will do a different request for the increase), changing the label will not do much, I don't feel you, or anyone, has proven this character to be consider anymore god-XXXX than any of the above listed skills provided by Nexon. In-fact, going by your standers.

Anything with: Transformations are considered auto-healing.
Wings of Eclipse is considered auto-dodging.
Anyone who attacks a frozen blasted/frozen target would be auto-hitting.

Otherwise, as this grants your character a high-chance power to nullify a large group of individual's ability to respond, effectively controlling them in the 'blue' magic-the-gathering sense, I will again stand by my disapproval.

Summoning an ice-dragon provides 100percent of the same effect(except on particular fomors, but all PCs). Lullaby will have the same effect.

In short, Dellinger. Yes, it's a strong power. And yeah, it'll probably anger a lot of people. I , personally, think I am very fair when handling IC-lives, I have multiple character who have been in big fights, and I found ways to keep the opposing player alive without going against my character, though, that aside, this skill is no different the OOC representation, except the need an instrument. There is various way to dodge it, your character will just have to be creative, and if you don't agree with the results, take it to PvP, if my character loses, he will just fail.

So, while when a character is under the condition they are vulnerable, the condition itself can not be forced on the player. And even while the condition is applied, if the target is smart, they could have defended themselves.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:43 am

Auramune wrote:

Now, for my personal opinion:
Xeek, I think you should hold this until the skill is out in game. Though, I understand your reasoning for posting it now xD. *looks at Soifa's bubble power, started in May.* >_>;

Here is what I think of your personal opinion Razz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, have a picture of a zebra.

Spoiler:

Auramune Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:04 am

You're such a brat xD!
Satch's Geass Rasp1

Like i said, I get it. I understand why. But I prefer bacon over zebras, anyways. So it's all good.

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:23 am

Just a small clarification... people do know, the target chooses whether to be affected or not, right?

Adhamh Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:48 am

This is in response to your Ice Spear/Frozen Blast/Shadow Spirit comment.

Ice Spear and Frozen Blast are both skills that can easily be noticed. You WILL notice someone loading their cylinder or charging Ice Spear, thus giving you time to react AND defend against both skills with a skill like Ice Shield that protects against both. How is one supposed to protect themselves against a time-stopping ability? There is no "time shield". From what you've said and shown with the video, the Geass is simply a flash of the eye. Most people should notice that his eye is oddly colored/has a weird sigil on it, but might think of it as some racial deformity or something. Who's to guess the nature of said eye? This skill appears to be instantaneous which gives NO reaction time whatsoever. ESPECIALLY since you say no eye contact is required. That is -definitely- overpowered.

Shadow Spirit as a power to hold someone in their place I agree is a bit god-moddish. Though none of our characters are demi-gods ICly, so Shadow Spirit should not be used by any of our characters I'd think. As for those that requested "holding" powers based upon Shadow Spirit, I'd think that might be one of the powers that's under the re-evaluation that he mentioned was going on. (Which is why he's told you that he's apprehensive about commenting on powers, most likely.)

Guest Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:54 am

Adhamh wrote:This is in response to your Ice Spear/Frozen Blast/Shadow Spirit comment.

Ice Spear and Frozen Blast are both skills that can easily be noticed. You WILL notice someone loading their cylinder or charging Ice Spear, thus giving you time to react AND defend against both skills with a skill like Ice Shield that protects against both. How is one supposed to protect themselves against a time-stopping ability? There is no "time shield". From what you've said and shown with the video, the Geass is simply a flash of the eye. Most people should notice that his eye is oddly colored/has a weird sigil on it, but might think of it as some racial deformity or something. Who's to guess the nature of said eye? This skill appears to be instantaneous which gives NO reaction time whatsoever. ESPECIALLY since you say no eye contact is required. That is -definitely- overpowered.
And yet, you decide if it works or not, as it's not a 100% success rate on the skill.

Shadow Spirit as a power to hold someone in their place I agree is a bit god-moddish. Though none of our characters are demi-gods ICly, so Shadow Spirit should not be used by any of our characters I'd think. As for those that requested "holding" powers based upon Shadow Spirit, I'd think that might be one of the powers that's under the re-evaluation that he mentioned was going on. (Which is why he's told you that he's apprehensive about commenting on powers, most likely.) None of our characters are the demi-god, but reskinned equivalents are around. Shadow spirit can be dodged IC, just get out of range. It takes time for the shadows to reach you.

Adhamh Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:59 am

Soifa Toten wrote:
Adhamh wrote:This is in response to your Ice Spear/Frozen Blast/Shadow Spirit comment.

Ice Spear and Frozen Blast are both skills that can easily be noticed. You WILL notice someone loading their cylinder or charging Ice Spear, thus giving you time to react AND defend against both skills with a skill like Ice Shield that protects against both. How is one supposed to protect themselves against a time-stopping ability? There is no "time shield". From what you've said and shown with the video, the Geass is simply a flash of the eye. Most people should notice that his eye is oddly colored/has a weird sigil on it, but might think of it as some racial deformity or something. Who's to guess the nature of said eye? This skill appears to be instantaneous which gives NO reaction time whatsoever. ESPECIALLY since you say no eye contact is required. That is -definitely- overpowered.
And yet, you decide if it works or not, as it's not a 100% success rate on the skill.

Shadow Spirit as a power to hold someone in their place I agree is a bit god-moddish. Though none of our characters are demi-gods ICly, so Shadow Spirit should not be used by any of our characters I'd think. As for those that requested "holding" powers based upon Shadow Spirit, I'd think that might be one of the powers that's under the re-evaluation that he mentioned was going on. (Which is why he's told you that he's apprehensive about commenting on powers, most likely.) None of our characters are the demi-god, but reskinned equivalents are around. Shadow spirit can be dodged IC, just get out of range. It takes time for the shadows to reach you.

1. I knew I forgot to mention something. Was gonna say that player-choosing the success should've been mentioned on the original post. xD; But if it's player-chosen, why the success rate? Unless you take into account the player's decision and then apply the success rate?

2. Ah, I wasn't sure if that could be done. Thanks for clearing that up. xD; *Doesn't duel, so doesn't ever really have to try to avoid Demi skills.*

Xeek Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:15 pm

Adhamh wrote:This is in response to your Ice Spear/Frozen Blast/Shadow Spirit comment.

Ice Spear and Frozen Blast are both skills that can easily be noticed. You WILL notice someone loading their cylinder or charging Ice Spear, thus giving you time to react AND defend against both skills with a skill like Ice Shield that protects against both. How is one supposed to protect themselves against a time-stopping ability? There is no "time shield". From what you've said and shown with the video, the Geass is simply a flash of the eye. Most people should notice that his eye is oddly colored/has a weird sigil on it, but might think of it as some racial deformity or something. Who's to guess the nature of said eye? This skill appears to be instantaneous which gives NO reaction time whatsoever. ESPECIALLY since you say no eye contact is required. That is -definitely- overpowered.

It still has a sign. If someone is carrying a lute, or some sort of drum sticks, you don't expect them to hit the drum, then wake up dead.

Also, I thought it was clear >_> Being a level two power and all.

Shadow Spirit as a power to hold someone in their place I agree is a bit god-moddish. Though none of our characters are demi-gods ICly, so Shadow Spirit should not be used by any of our characters I'd think. As for those that requested "holding" powers based upon Shadow Spirit, I'd think that might be one of the powers that's under the re-evaluation that he mentioned was going on. (Which is why he's told you that he's apprehensive about commenting on powers, most likely.)

Any skill in-game can be dodged, meaning if they don't have a way to be dodged IC, they are god-modded. As the case of shadow spirit, a person can also person before the darkness touches them, or trans.

I would not request a power that can't be dodged. While I don't care if people stop RPing with him, it does take away the fun. Beside, if I REALLY wanted to kill people, I rather use IC cleverness and creativity. Satch is actually a very cool guy, and totally not an assassin.

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