Re: Kysmet- Xaver's twin

Auramune Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:54 pm

Apparently Mari doesn't have net atm. Which she didn't disapprove of the power, but she didn't approve of it either. Sooo.. idk.

But please, yes, anymore questions?

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:06 pm

Auramune wrote:
That would be destroyed from the outside. The creator of the realm can destroy it any time they want, from outside or inside. Anything inside that's real would just get pushed out and not harmed, since the only way a person can be harmed inside of them is by being physically touched.

See, what Glacia says suggests it's an ILLUSION, though. Creating a dimensional pocket isn't an illusion. It's messing with the time/space continuum of Erinn.

The basis for the power.. you said was magic? Or tried to call it that. But her method is simply "Believing" she can do it, as well as the other Kitsune. Which is not a method or even remotely an explanation (and just made me think "My Little Kitsune: Believing is Magic"). Magic is a thing you can do in game. I don't need an explanation of that. Enchanting is a thing you can do in game. Don't need an explanation. Literally ripping a hole in Erinn is NOT a thing you can do in game. Even as a Demigod. You can OPEN PORTALS (though only temporary ones) to other places, but you cannot CREATE (the word "create" is used specifically here. If she's expanding something, that's different) them yourself. Just because she's a Kitsune and has this ability in her HOME REALM does NOT mean it would work IN ERINN. Especially if it's just by simply BELIEVING she can do it.

The issue I have is that there's basically NO explanation. Just that she DOES it.

I think I covered everything, even the commentary from the peanut gallery.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:39 pm

I am sorry Jabber, that statement was just plain redudant. OF COURSE it's not in the game. It's a power request. And that's how she creates her dimension, by expanding. I honestly do NOT understand what you aren't getting. Let me try this again.
The space in Erinn is made of gum. Aura grabs the gum, makes it bigger, blows a bubble, done. Other than that, the rest is done with magic.

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:40 pm

Xeek wrote:I am sorry Jabber, that statement was just plain redudant. OF COURSE it's not in the game. It's a power request. And that's how she creates her dimension, by expanding. I honestly do NOT understand what you aren't getting. Let me try this again.
The space in Erinn is made of gum. Aura grabs the gum, makes it bigger, blows a bubble, done. Other than that, the rest is done with magic.

She says she CREATES a pocket. Xeek, that is not the same as finding a little hidey hole pocket and expanding it. CREATING it is CREATING it.

And I wasn't being redundant. I was explaining WHY there should be an explanation for some things and not for others. The relationship OOC here doesn't quite reach the relationship IC.

Auramune Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:42 pm

Despite what you think, these particular powers and what's done with them is an ILLUSION. It does NOT mess with the fabric of time and space for Erinn, because it doesn't. I know that some apples are green, but this one is clearly red. So listen to me when I tell you that it's a red apple, and not green.

The belief a kitsune has in their magic makes it real. Their illusions are their basis of reality. As is with ALL ILLUSION MAGIC EVER. Because if the user doesn't believe it's real, it's not real to them. Which makes it not useful.

The destruction of a kitsune's illusions by faith is a traumatic event to a kitsune, as their concept of reality gets destroyed.

Illusion=concept of reality.
Believing of illusion= believing in their reality.
Kitsune Illusion=Kitsune Reality

It sounds like you're being nit-picky on a single word or two(create/expand). Stop focusing on a single word and read EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S BEEN SHOWN TO YOU.

I shouldn't have to break down the entire process, since no one ever breaks down the entire process. Blahblahblah twisting mana to suit the magical needs. The process is the same as any single spell that's ever been cast ever. It's just a different brand of magic. And, for the most part, a one time use to erect the realm/homestead, unless something drastic happens to her and it effects it.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:51 pm

Mari Eir wrote:
She says she CREATES a pocket. Xeek, that is not the same as finding a little hidey hole pocket and expanding it. CREATING it is CREATING it.

And I wasn't being redundant. I was explaining WHY there should be an explanation for some things and not for others. The relationship OOC here doesn't quite reach the relationship IC.

Grab a piece of gum... chew it a bit, after that is done, stretch it somewhere, but not a lot. Then put your finger on it and lightly press, making a hole.
You see how that hole extends making a bag or a small sack?

Pocket: A small sack or bag.

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:56 pm

No, I'm not sticking to one word (but if you think that's an issue, maybe you should CHANGE it..? Cause you've made no attempt to thus far). It's the actual description of the skill.
"Kysmet is able to create her own pocket dimension. From the outside, the dimension can't be seen, though if a person walks into where it is, they will enter a world created by her. She can move around and change the world inside, though it takes a lot of energy. If she moves the location of the dimension entrance, she'll be fatigued. She can also feel if someone goes inside the realm without her being there. "

This is NOT an illusion. If it's an illusion, then she's actually just OUT in the OPEN and there's an illusion around her. This clearly says she makes a pocket.
This IS an illusion. It can be foiled, yes, I get this. Hahaha.

You can't tear a hole in space and call it an illusion. Because there is ACTUALLY a tear there. The entrance is the illusion. I'm going off of your own description.

And Aura, the wording matters. CREATING means she somehow has the power to create space. Which is godly. EXPANDING means she just finds one of the many pocket dimensions that I'm sure already exist within Erinn and manipulates it according to her needs. Much less godly.

Now is she EXPANDING an already existent space (as was suggested FAR earlier in the thread if that was missed) according to these definitions or MAKING the space?

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:19 pm

Both. She uses the current space, expands it and adds her make to create an new dimension. It's not a god-ly power. Because certain deities can't do it doesn't mean it's godly. It's completely reasonable(as magic could be, anyways) and not over powered.

Illusions aren't real, kistunes can make them real. But it's still an Illusion. That's how it's classified EVERYWHERE. You may not agree with it, you may see it another way. But, by DnD and all other games that have kistunes it's classified as an illusion.

Now, I just went to google and typed "define expand", then "define make"
Expand: Become or make larger or more extensive.
Make: Form (something) by putting parts together or combining substances; construct; create: "she made a dress"

It's been stated several times how she does it. I do not see your problem.
If you say it's godly, give proof how. Because certain weak gods can't do it, doesn't make it godly.
To further add to that, god-like powers are NOT forbidden, unless they are over powered or they aren't represented.

If you don't know how she makes it yet, you need to re-read. It's been stated SEVERAL times. No more information can be given, because I, personally, didn't study magic in highschool.

Adhamh Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:28 pm

Xeek wrote:Illusions aren't real, kistunes can make them real. But it's still an Illusion. That's how it's classified EVERYWHERE. You may not agree with it, you may see it another way. But, by DnD and all other games that have kistunes it's classified as an illusion.

Now, I just went to google and typed "define expand", then "define make"
Expand: Become or make larger or more extensive.
Make: Form (something) by putting parts together or combining substances; construct; create: "she made a dress"

You're contradicting yourself here Xeek. If something is made real, it's not an illusion anymore.
This is Mabi, not DnD or other games. If you've noticed, Mabi isn't your average MMO. It may share some qualities with others, but the lore/mechanics are/can be different.
When something is expanded, it already exists. The word 'make' in the definition isn't referring to a completely new creation, it's referring to a modification of something that already exists. Creation is making something completely new, not modifying on what already exists.

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:30 pm

Xeek wrote:
Now, I just went to google and typed "define expand", then "define make"
Expand: Become or make larger or more extensive.
Make: Form (something) by putting parts together or combining substances; construct; create: "she made a dress"

You have GOT to be kidding me, Xeek. Make doesn't mean create in this case. MAKE bigger means it BECOMES bigger. Literally expanding. "Creates" bigger is not what's being said here because that doesn't make sense. So don't even TRY that, you would be failed in an English class for saying "create larger or more extensive".

Create = fabricate (v; "to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.")
Expand = increase. (v; "to increase in extent, size, volume, scope, etc.")

And I'm against creating it entirely. I am against splitting the difference and saying she does both. I am fine with expanding something that is ALREADY there.

My problem IS that she created the space. That is the actual problem. You may not see it as a big deal, but she can MAKE pocket dimensions. She can MAKE a world. Yes, I see that as an issue. I do NOT approve of the ability to make a dimension.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:36 pm

Adhamh wrote:
Xeek wrote:Illusions aren't real, kistunes can make them real. But it's still an Illusion. That's how it's classified EVERYWHERE. You may not agree with it, you may see it another way. But, by DnD and all other games that have kistunes it's classified as an illusion.

Now, I just went to google and typed "define expand", then "define make"
Expand: Become or make larger or more extensive.
Make: Form (something) by putting parts together or combining substances; construct; create: "she made a dress"
You're contradicting yourself here Xeek. If something is made real, it's not an illusion anymore.
This is Mabi, not DnD or other games. If you've noticed, Mabi isn't your average MMO. It may share some qualities with others, but the lore/mechanics are/can be different.
When something is expanded, it already exists. The word 'make' in the definition isn't referring to a completely new creation, it's referring to a modification of something that already exists. Creation is making something completely new, not modifying on what already exists.

COLORS DX! Are you trying to kill me?

It's considered an Illusion by the regular standards, it's JUST a label. Just like Xaver's powers. He transforms, he is solid. But it's considered an illusion.
It doesn't have to be? A classification it's a label. What you call it doesn't change what it is. Don't you read Romeo and Juliet? (A rose by any other name is just as sweet)
Yes. The land exist. The dimension doesn't. She expands the land to create the dimension, ta-duh? Like, when you expand a square, you make a rectangle. put 6 walls together you create a cube. You put words together to create a sentence.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:39 pm

Mari Eir wrote:

And I'm against creating it entirely. I am against splitting the difference and saying she does both. I am fine with expanding something that is ALREADY there.

My problem IS that she created the space. That is the actual problem. You may not see it as a big deal, but she can MAKE pocket dimensions. She can MAKE a world. Yes, I see that as an issue. I do NOT approve of the ability to make a dimension.

She is NOT creating space. She is creating a dimension. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. She is expanding space to CREATE A DIMENSION. *See above for examples*

You have GOT to be kidding me, Xeek. Make doesn't mean create in this case. MAKE bigger means it BECOMES bigger. Literally expanding. "Creates" bigger is not what's being said here because that doesn't make sense. So don't even TRY that, you would be failed in an English class for saying "create larger or more extensive".

I did not make anything up. It's directly in google. Go try yourself if you want.
You follow the word trail.
Expand lead to make, make leads to create.

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:52 pm

Space IS dimension, Xeek. I don't mean the "Area" or outer space, I mean space on the level of dimensions. "The familiar three-dimensional region or field of everyday experience." By creating.. she is making another three-dimensional plane.

Plane: a level of existence, performance, attainment, etc.

Do I have to attach a dictionary definition to everything I'm saying now? o__O

And actually LOOK in a dictionary or dictionary.com. ALL words have multiple meanings. They're not appropriate for every occasion.

Adhamh Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:53 pm

Xeek wrote:
Adhamh wrote:
Xeek wrote:Illusions aren't real, kistunes can make them real. But it's still an Illusion. That's how it's classified EVERYWHERE. You may not agree with it, you may see it another way. But, by DnD and all other games that have kistunes it's classified as an illusion.

Now, I just went to google and typed "define expand", then "define make"
Expand: Become or make larger or more extensive.
Make: Form (something) by putting parts together or combining substances; construct; create: "she made a dress"
You're contradicting yourself here Xeek. If something is made real, it's not an illusion anymore.
This is Mabi, not DnD or other games. If you've noticed, Mabi isn't your average MMO. It may share some qualities with others, but the lore/mechanics are/can be different.
When something is expanded, it already exists. The word 'make' in the definition isn't referring to a completely new creation, it's referring to a modification of something that already exists. Creation is making something completely new, not modifying on what already exists.

COLORS DX! Are you trying to kill me?

It's considered an Illusion by the regular standards, it's JUST a label. Just like Xaver's powers. He transforms, he is solid. But it's considered an illusion.
It doesn't have to be? A classification it's a label. What you call it doesn't change what it is. Don't you read Romeo and Juliet? (A rose by any other name is just as sweet)
Yes. The land exist. The dimension doesn't. She expands the land to create the dimension, ta-duh? Like, when you expand a square, you make a rectangle. put 6 walls together you create a cube. You put words together to create a sentence.

Red: Okay, if it's considered an illusion, then it's an illusion and not real. I think what you mean by all this is that the illusion exists. By real, do you mean that the illusion is there? Because an illusion has the capability of existing, but the contents of the illusion are fake. For example, an illusion of a tree. Someone see's the tree and thinks its real, but in reality, the tree is fake. It's not real. But the illusion itself does exist or else the person wouldn't be seeing a tree.

Green: Just because it's called something in another game, doesn't make it the standards for everything else to define itself by.

Blue: I don't understand this. Wouldn't expanding the land make MORE land and not a dimension? I'm not too well-versed in dimension-logic.

Xeek wrote:She is NOT creating space. She is creating a dimension. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. She is expanding space to CREATE A DIMENSION. *See above for examples*

Xeek. A dimension IS a space. :l

Xeek wrote: I did not make anything up. It's directly in google. Go try yourself if you want.
You follow the word trail.
Expand lead to make, make leads to create.

Xeek. Make can be used in more than one way. Ever hear of context clues? In that specific situation, make means a specific property is being altered. The specific property being size. The size is being increased. Look at the words AFTER make. "larger or more extensive" MEANING that the size already existed and was being increased. NOT being made anew.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:59 pm

Mari Eir wrote:Space IS dimension, Xeek. I don't mean the "Area" or outer space, I mean space on the level of dimensions. "The familiar three-dimensional region or field of everyday experience." By creating.. she is making another three-dimensional plane.

Plane: a level of existence, performance, attainment, etc.

Do I have to attach a dictionary definition to everything I'm saying now? o__O

No. I think I do.

Space: A continuous area or expanse that is free, available, or unoccupied.
^She gets that. Makes it bigger. And creates a dimension with it.
Oh, by the way. Look at the red-bold.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:05 pm

Red: Okay, if it's considered an illusion, then it's an illusion and not real. I think what you mean by all this is that the illusion exists. By real, do you mean that the illusion is there? Because an illusion has the capability of existing, but the contents of the illusion are fake. For example, an illusion of a tree. Someone see's the tree and thinks its real, but in reality, the tree is fake. It's not real. But the illusion itself does exist or else the person wouldn't be seeing a tree. Yes.

Green: Just because it's called something in another game, doesn't make it the standards for everything else to define itself by. It's using game-language. It's a term people understand (or should). Like English. It's simply how it's stated for the creators of the kistunes.

Blue: I don't understand this. Wouldn't expanding the land make MORE land and not a dimension? I'm not too well-versed in dimension-logic.
Xeek. A dimension IS a space. :l

No, a dimension HAS space. A dimension IS NOT space. Cake has eggs, eggs are not cake. (eggs make/create cake)

Xeek. Make can be used in more than one way. Ever hear of context clues? In that specific situation, make means a specific property is being altered. The specific property being size. The size is being increased. Look at the words AFTER make. "larger or more extensive" MEANING that the size already existed and was being increased. NOT being made anew.

If you MAKE something bigger, you are creating more space, are you not?

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:10 pm

Xeek wrote:
Mari Eir wrote:Space IS dimension, Xeek. I don't mean the "Area" or outer space, I mean space on the level of dimensions. "The familiar three-dimensional region or field of everyday experience." By creating.. she is making another three-dimensional plane.

Plane: a level of existence, performance, attainment, etc.

Do I have to attach a dictionary definition to everything I'm saying now? o__O

No. I think I do.

Space: A continuous area or expanse that is free, available, or unoccupied.
^She gets that. Makes it bigger. And creates a dimension with it.
Oh, by the way. Look at the red-bold.

Yes, Xeek. I said make. I used it properly, too. Apparently I DO need to include the dictionary in every post.

Make: to bring into existence by shaping or changing material, combining parts, etc. This means to create or fabricate.

Make: to cause to be or become. This does not mean to create, it means to become.

Dimension:
-A measure of spatial extent, especially width, height, or length.
-Any one of the three physical or spatial properties of length, area, and volume.
-An extension in time: Space-time has three dimensions of space and one of time.
-A property of space

Glaceon Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:12 pm

A space has DIMENSIONS. Dimensions are preset qualities, you do not create them. I did a favor and looked up a LIST of synonyms for Dimension, space ain't one of them. It's often scoped to Height, Length, and Width. If she is creating dimension, she is creating a SPACE with those dimensions, which only godlike-beings are capable of doing in Erinn's lore and terms. Ok...I did kinda contradict myself early there...but still.

A space is defined by it's dimensions, so if you create dimensions, you create a space defined by those dimensions, therefore create a space.

Adhamh Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:16 pm

Xeek wrote:
Blue: I don't understand this. Wouldn't expanding the land make MORE land and not a dimension? I'm not too well-versed in dimension-logic.
Xeek. A dimension IS a space. :l

No, a dimension HAS space. A dimension IS NOT space. Cake has eggs, eggs are not cake. (eggs make/create cake)

Xeek. Make can be used in more than one way. Ever hear of context clues? In that specific situation, make means a specific property is being altered. The specific property being size. The size is being increased. Look at the words AFTER make. "larger or more extensive" MEANING that the size already existed and was being increased. NOT being made anew.
If you MAKE something bigger, you are creating more space, are you not?

I'm not even gonna comment on that analogy.

If you make something bigger, you're not creating more space. Rather, you're occupying more space that already exists, thus leaving you with less space.

Edit: Unless of course you're making a dimension. In expanding a dimension, yes you're making more space. But that leads back to the whole kitsune creating a dimension.

Mari Eir Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:18 pm

Glaceon wrote:A space has DIMENSIONS. Dimensions are preset qualities, you do not create them. I did a favor and looked up a LIST of synonyms for Dimension, space ain't one of them. It's often scoped to Height, Length, and Width. If she is creating dimension, she is creating a SPACE with those dimensions, which only godlike-beings are capable of doing in Erinn's lore and terms. Ok...I did kinda contradict myself early there...but still.

A space is defined by it's dimensions, so if you create dimensions, you create a space defined by those dimensions, therefore create a space.

Actually, I don't mean godly in JUST Erinn's terms. The idea of being able to create a dimension is god-like period.

Godlike: like or befitting God or a god; divine.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:32 pm

I am just going to drop the make discussion, because we are clearly not going to agree and it has little/nothing to do with the power.

Actually, I don't mean godly in JUST Erinn's terms. The idea of being able to create a dimension is god-like period.

Godlike: like or befitting God or a god; divine.

Few things: It's not god-like, and unless you can prove that it is, it's not. Also, note: Because a god can do it doesn't make it god-like. Kistunes have this ability in their worlds, and they are NOT gods. They are worshipped as deities, but they aren't god.

Secondly, even it was god-like, it's not god-moding nor overpower.
Therefore, even if it was god-like, it's not a reason to disapprove it.

Auramune Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:00 pm

Don't push what you believe is a god ability on my powers, because this has nothing to do with gods. And I respectfully ask that you keep your religion/belief off of it.

The power has nothing to do with gods in any sense of the word, and that's final.

Glaceon Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:04 pm

godmod has the word in it, and creating your realm is borderline godmod. And I said godlike of Erinn's lore, so don't get your panties tied up please.

And yes, Kitsunes can do this in THEIR realm. But you know what, this isn't THEIR realm, this is Erinn. Powers can be revoked, and re-evaluated. Perhaps the entire pocket-realm idea needs to be re-evaluated.

Xeek Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:08 pm

Glaceon wrote:godmod has the word in it, and creating your realm is borderline godmod. And I said godlike of Erinn's lore, so don't get your panties tied up please.

And yes, Kitsunes can do this in THEIR realm. But you know what, this isn't THEIR realm, this is Erinn. Powers can be revoked, and re-evaluated. Perhaps the entire pocket-realm idea needs to be re-evaluated.

Glacia, don't start being rude. She wasn't talking to you. Just because a word is within another word doesn't mean anything. This isn't anywhere NEAR god-modded. It's not unstoppable, it's not all powerful, it does not inflict 10000damage.

Another thing stated before, just because Kistunes are born in a place DOES NOT mean that's the only place they can use their powers.
Another thing, Kysmet and Xaver were born here. So your final point is invalid. Also, it doesn't have to be re-evaluated because you are upset at a comment that it wasn't even to you.

Auramune Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:26 pm

I wasn't referring to you Glacia. I was referring to Mari's post. So if you're going to start saying rude stuff then gtfo.

This isn't ANYONE'S realm. I could say that any power that is brought in to Erinn is 'god like' because people in Erinn can't do it. So that argument is pretty invalid here, unless you question the same thing for every single power and race that comes through.

I don't understand what the big deal is. It's been explained to death. It doesn't effect the time and space of Erinn AT ALL. READ: IT DOES NOT EFFECT THE TIME AND SPACE OF ERINN AT ALL. Because that's just how the power is. Do I need to say it in spanish or japanese for you to understand?

IT
DOES
NOT
EFFECT
ERINN'S
TIME
AND
SPACE
AT
ALL
BECAUSE
THATS
NOT
HOW
THE
POWER
WORKS

Stop pushing your ideas of how you think the power is, because that's not what it is.

Whatever you think of how the power works, wipe it completely from your mind and just pay attention to what's been said by the people who use the power. Because the power is my power, and we've been telling you how THIS POWER works. But you need to READ and get it through your skulls that it's not what you assume it is, but what it's being said it is. Because none of you can tell me how my power works because it's similar to something else. It's NOT THAT ITS WHATS BEING EXPLAINED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

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